Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ

Hey, by the way, I was just reading an interview with this author, and I thought you might be interested in this snippet from it:
"He’s a rational guy, but he’s rational to the point of passivity, so that when the war beckons, he’s almost paralyzed by the question of whether or not it’s a worthwhile cause of action. He’s paralyzed by the simple thought, unassailably logical, that the validity of the war will depend on its outcome. And the outcome of the war is not foreseeable in advance; it’s not predictable. From a logical point of view his reasoning is sound, but from a political point of view, it’s hopeless. His wife takes issue with him for that reason, though this surfaces after she’s left him already."
So that's part of why she left him, which you refer to in your review.
Also though, I'd be interested to know what you think about that criteria for the validity of war - the outcome. ??? Interesting idea, but.. as he says, politically (and strategically etc.., really) that just doesn't work.

Meant to include this link, in case you wanted to read the rest of the interview:

I will check out the interview within the next few days. Thanks so much for the info. I can already see, just from the portion here, that there is much I missed in the book. Sigh.

I got around to the interview this morning (4am). I stand by my notion that it was not primarily a 9/11 book. The author of the article, Katie Bacon, would seem to agree:

"Yet the details, which give the novel a rich texture, are secondary to Hans’s ruminations. At its heart, Netherland is an interior novel, in which the reader is privy to Hans’s thoughts as he slowly figures out a way to rebuild his life."

O'Neill even says that it began as a book "about business" which is certainly a far cry IMHO from what emerged. But the larger socio-political stuff seemed secondary to me. It appears that it was probably at least co-equal.

As for O'Neill's quote; “He’s paralyzed by the simple thought, unassailably logical, that the validity of the war will depend on its outcome.� Sorry, no. The ends do not justify the lying means. There is nothing logical about that.

There was a portion of the interview that stuck in my craw a bit:

"Someone asks Hans at one point whether he was there for 9/11, and he says, “You were only really there if you were in the building.� And I would agree with him on that point. For the rest of us, it was a spectacle, literally."

As a native, as someone who ate lunch in the WTC several times a week for several years, and who passed through it 5 days a week to get to work, who felt the rumble of the first WTC attack across the river in Jersey City, who saw the flames and the smoke from my neighborhood, who stood in Sheepshead Bay in Brooklyn that afternoon as paper snow fell from the south-blowing plume, who smelled the charnal stench from months of unquenchable fire, who looks up at my hometown skyline and is primarily aware of the gap, and who looks long at the many planes passing overhead, wondering where each might be headed, I can report that it was far, far more than a mere spectacle. It dwells in my consciousness and in my dreams, permanently. I did not personally know any of the 9/11 victims. But, like most New Yorkers, have at least a connection through less than six degrees. A good friend of my wife lost a sister there.

O'Neill's thoughtless comment diminished my respect for him. I was also taken aback at his willingness to trash another writer:

"I think Don Delillo quickly knocked something out, [about 9/11:] which I didn’t read."

The book was Falling Man and it was pretty good. It says something about O'Neill that he feels free to dismiss a work by a highly respected writer without having actually read it.

I still liked Netherland though, and thanks for the link.

Interesting, thanks! I was wondering too if that additional aspect - thinking about war being why his wife left him - filled in that discontent from your review at all? Or if it was insufficient?

Yes, I got that thoughtless vibe as well. For me it was about how the Dutch were the first people in New York (ignoring Native Americans). Disappointing.

And I'm glad to hear your response to the 9/11 comment. Wow, I can't imagine what it must have been like. I subscribed to NYT during that period because of it all, and saved portions of them for a long time and everything.. but knew I'd never know what it was like. A guy I worked with at the time here in Minneapolis, his mother worked and lived very close to the towers, and he was frantic until he was able to find out she was ok.

I'll never forget that morning driving to work, I stopped to get gas.. and heard a snippet of something odd. Then, at the gas station, one guy said to the other 'Have they hit the Chicago Water Tower yet?' or some building there.. the other said 'Not yet'. I thought - weird. But didn't really find out till I got to work. The doors were locked (unusually), the Jewish people at work had instantly imagined the worst. Was all so shocking. I went home after a few hours, in case schools were going to be attacked. So that I could get to my daughter as soon as possible.

And yeah, that comment about Delillo surprised me to. I had the impression he's in that literary elite circle, where such comments/postures are perhaps usual? Living in the Chelsea hotel and all... You Know.

The Jewish people's reaction was maybe not so paranoid, at least as far as fearing for attacks on relations in NY, LA or Israel. One of the early (1990s) plans by the terrorist types was to hit a very Orthodox Jewish Brooklyn neighborhood called Borough Park, about a mile from where I live. That never happened, but it was not from a lack of desire. Or from a lack of local talent. There are substantial immigrant communities here in Brooklyn from various foreign locales, the Middle-East, Pakistan, Bangladesh, et al. A group of would-be bombers, Arabic I believe, was foiled within walking distance of where I live.

I would be interested to hear more of the reaction of your friends and relations to 9/11.

One of the eeriest aspects of the aftermath of 9/11 here was the quiet. With three major airports within a few miles of each other (Kennedy, LaGuardia and Newark) the sky is never, ever airplane-free. It is part of our background sound track, overhead white noise. Take it away and one is instantly aware of the absence. Another sound-effect change was the shortage of blaring automobile horns. (Aside from the seemingly increased number of sirens from various emergency vehicles). And the volume of traffic was reduced with the virtual shut-down of Manhattan. For a time, we New Yorkers were significantly more civil to each other, a product I expect of shared shock.

Back to the book, I guess without re-reading the book, I cannot really say if the war reason for his wife leaving would satisfy. Probably not. But I don't think it is ultimately all that significant. It is her absence that is of significance, not necessarily, I believe, the reason for her absence.

Oh, I definitely agree that Jewish people had valid reasons for concern at that moment. I'd just converted to Judaism in July of 2001, and services at synagogues had multiple changes incorporated for safety and all. But just .. at the office of a small theater, for goodness sakes, feeling like they had better lock the door. You know, it wasn't a decision as much as a reaction, but for them to have feared that something of that intensity might be happening, something that could reach their actual door.. that's what I was thinking about.
Wow, scary about those plans you refer to.
As far as 9/11, I'm sure all that we experienced here is nothing like what you did there. But was just contributing that, even for us here, it felt much more experiential than perceptual.
One person I worked with shortly afterwards had had to change jobs because of it, they were a travel agent. Can you imagine, being in that position on 9/11? They said it was by far the worst thing, to have their own feelings about what was happening, and then to have to deal with many many clients whose plans were completely upended, wanting info that wasn't available, etc... This person loved to travel, loved working in travel, and it was all over that day.
With the intensity even we here did have, have known it must have been so much more there, will never be able to know.
Seems not nearly enough has been written from all of you there yet? Hope more is coming, it was so significant.

Will & Claire

Thank-you for this conversation which I just realized took place a few years ago. What you have both said, particularly regarding 9/11, is most poignant.

I remember this being compared to The Great Gatsby when it came out. With all the hype surrounding the movie, I couldn't help looking for parallels in your review. It seems to me that the immigrant experience described here might be similar to the rebirth Gatsby craves. I think I need to reread both of them.

Hi Will, I just now saw this review of yours and wanted to say that it was really touching for me to read your account of how you experienced 9/11. Especially, your description of the deadly silence of the city after the attack and collapse. O'Neill was here in Amsterdam being interviewed after the Dutch translation of his book and it was surprising to hear him speak pretty good Dutch. Seemed like a really pleasant person. I hope you don't mind me saying that the book left me pretty much luke-warm and I wonder whether that was because of the never ending ramblings about playing cricket.

You are not alone in the luke-warm feeling. I definitely liked it a few degrees warmer than you did, much appreciating the portrayal of growing a community from a shared interest, .but I could definitely see how the volume of verbiage about cricket might be a bit much for anyone not well-versed in the sport.