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The Dawn of Everything by David Graeber
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Graeber’s final and most ambitious (collaborative) gift to us is only the beginning�

Preamble:
...The beginning of a storm of debates. Indeed, this is the 3rd time I've had to update this review due to comradely feedback as I shift my reading context:

1) A momentary rupture of the Status quo:
--I started with a celebratory review to honour Graeber's last major project and to review it from a mainstream (i.e. not politically radical/academically critical) readership context given its NYT best-seller reach.
--Indeed, much of the "debunking" in this book is directly targeting mainstream "public intellectuals", i.e. Harari (Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind), Pinker (The Better Angels of Our Nature: Why Violence Has Declined), Diamond (Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies), Fukuyama, etc. and their mainstream cultural influences (esp. Rousseau's "noble savage" vs. Hobbes' "the war of all against all" requiring a "Leviathan").
...There’s always a certain joy seeing status quo liberals (think: cosmopolitan capitalism) frame Graeber’s social imagination as “dԲdzܲ� (most famously for Graeber's Debt: The First 5,000 Years, which coincided with the Occupy Wall Street that Graeber was involved in); suddenly, the inescapable “Capitalist Realism� overcast disperses and the skies open with possibilities.
...What better time than now to revive social imagination as status quo faith propels us towards ecological crises. 5 stars!
--I was also biased by social media (which amplifies and flattens differences) and assumed this book would be a useful intervention for crude Leftist debates between "anarchists" and "Marxists", where self-professed “anarchist� Graeber attempts to transcend vulgar caricatures by reframing assumptions shared by both “sides�.

2) ...Now what? (The dialectical dance between materialism and idealism):
--Just as Occupy was an invigorating breath of fresh air before it was suffocated (although it did have lasting influences setting up Bernie Sanders' campaigns, which also were derailed...), what frameworks/tools did this book actually provide to mainstream readers for long-term transformative reconstruction (i.e. not just short-term deconstruction)?
--Here is where critiques started to pile up, crucially by leftist/critical anthropologists, which made me re-evaluate how I read Graeber (I'm specifically singling out Graeber not Wengrow because Graeber sits in the unique position of being a radical activist/academic who cracked into mainstream readership).
--My initial update acknowledged that:
i) My reading context is “historical materialism� in a broad sense (i.e. analytical lens to start with, rather than rigid conclusions; I've written a checklist here: A People's History of the World: From the Stone Age to the New Millennium), meaning my foundation for analyzing the processes of history/society starts with the material conditions, i.e. the interactions between (1) physical environmental conditions and (2) social relations to fulfill material needs (production/distribution/reproduction, and the corresponding class conflicts/political bargaining power/contradictions). (3) Ideas with more bargaining power eventually get coded into our culture. "Marxist", if you're not using scare-quotes.
...The interactions between these material conditions vs. our cultural ideas (stories we tell to normalize the interactions) make up the dialectical dance between materialism vs. idealism. While there is a "chicken-or-egg" debate between materialist vs. idealist perspectives, I find starting with material conditions provides a sound foundation whereas starting with cultural ideas can leave us untethered to reality. At their best, Graeber/Wengrow acknowledge this:
Perhaps Marx put it best: we make our own history, but not under conditions of our own choosing.
ii) With this materialist foundation in place, I've made the habit of letting Graeber waltz in and flip everything on its head while still (somewhat) respecting the foundations by engaging with its concepts (rather than completely omitting it to create a parallel universe).
...In the context of academia, I like to describe Graeber (and his colleague Michael Hudson) as bulls in a china shop; they are the big-leap "creative destruction" in contrast to the carefully-plodding rigorous side (which I tend to practice if left to my own devices). So, I personally find Graeber's challenges invigorating since I tend to balance it out (i.e. someone needs to pick up the pieces after a Graeber/Hudson rampage).
iii) However, had I read Graeber without a materialist foundation, I would find Graeber's most provocative challenges disorienting. Would mainstream readers be carried away by the excesses of "creative destruction" rhetoric (which became glaring in my second read; I was still holding onto the excuse of marketing for a mass audience...) and miss the moments when Graeber is playing with (rather than rejecting) materialism (if you need a starting point, wherever Graeber mentions Marx)?
--So, I started with the wonderful "Climate & Capitalism" ecosocialist journal edited by Ian Angus and reviewed their historical materialist critique titled , (authored by anthropologists Chris Knight/Nancy Lindisfarne/Jonathan Neale: "Among our heroes are the extensive publications of the readable Christopher Boehm, Frans de Waal, R. Brian Ferguson, Sarah [Blaffer] Hrdy, Martin Jones and Laura Rival."), which I appended to the comment section in this review (comment #35).
--My foremost goal remains to seek synthesis; I want to dispel the sad irony that Graeber’s last project identifies “culture areas�/schismogensis (the creation of one’s own identity through difference from others, see later; we can add “narcissism of small differences� and capitalist atomization) as a key barrier to system change, yet this book has created quite the uproar amongst the Left in particular.

3) The devil is in the details:
--You can see the direction I am heading. After reading this book twice, I put it and the topic on hiatus despite numerous comrades recommending the "What is Politics?" .
--Coincidentally, I started re-reading Graeber's works in parallel with dense readings in historical materialism (particular the ecological lens as well as value theory/accounting) in hopes of those momentary ruptures of "creative destruction", so I had to re-open this can of worms.
...To me, the most damning critique by "What is Politics?" is the messy interpretations/omissions on the positions of current anthropology made by Graeber/Wengrow, which is catastrophic because (as leftist anthropologists/archaeologists themselves) this should be their expertise and top priority for a book marketed to the public (i.e. to clearly popularize the best of anthropology)!
...I'm left with the sad conclusion that this book:
i) Runs circles around status quo priests (Harari/Pinker/Diamond/Fukuyama; yes, they are very influential in popular culture for convenient propagandistic reasons, but why should we perpetuate the myth that these figures represent the critical research in anthropology/archeology?) until we are all dizzy, and...
ii) Fumbled a great opportunity to popularize (and indeed debate/synthesize) radical/critical anthropology (great, more homework), etc.
...A bitter but important pill to swallow as I re-read the rest of Graeber's works. I've left my review below mostly unedited, as I think it still reflects the gist of Graeber/Wengrow's positions. As critical readers, we are forever tasked with further synthesizing.

Highlights:

--This book is the culmination of a project (apparently Graeber envisioned a trilogy) between anthropologist/activist Graeber and archeologist Wengrow, which started as an investigation on the “origins of inequality�, but ended with the authors attempting a complete reframing that raises new questions ("What is Politics?" praises the foundational, big-picture questions asked) and possibilities (but are they materially sustainable?) (lecture:

Myth #1: Prior to agriculture, humans lived as primitive egalitarian hunter-gatherers:
--This vulgar “stages of development� assumption (once again, in popular culture, but not in leading anthropology) can be traced to the Enlightenment and the shock of Europe’s (i.e. “an obscure and uninviting backwater full of religious fanatics�) sudden integration into the world economy.
--In typical “Great (Western) Man Theory� manner, modern liberals like smug muppet Steven Pinker (the Ayn Rand for Bill Gates) portray the Enlightenment in an isolationist manner of inventive European men. Even when these Enlightenment-era Europeans detail encounters with the rest of the world (American indigenous/Chinese/Indian/Persian etc.), this is either omitted or rendered as “mere projection of European fantasies�.
--This erases the dialogue behind the Enlightenment: missionary/travel literature became popular back in Europe for its critique of settlers/Europe and social imagination for alternatives. In particular, the “Indigenous critique� (ex. Kondiaronk) against European (ex. French) elite private property regime against mutual aide while the masses toiled + accumulation of oppressive power against individual freedoms/consensus-building (participatory democracy) caused Jesuit outrage and stimulated Enlightenment debates.
--A counter to this critique was based on Lockean property rights, where colonialists portrayed the indigenous as "primitive" in a negative sense, esp. not putting labour into the land, thus part of nature with no property claims.
...Graeber/Wengrow contends that Jean-Jacques Rousseau was able to coopt (1) the “Indigenous critique� and (2) its reactionary backlash to create the “stupid savage� myth (later abused in “Social Darwinism� and “scientific racism�; Rousseau's actual theory is the “noble savage�) where primitive peoples were indeed egalitarian but this cannot be an alternative to the trap of private property’s progress. "What is Politics?" critiques that connecting “stupid savage� to an economist like A.R.J. Turgot is insightful, but it's a stretch to connect it to Rousseau.
...The “stupid savage�/“noble savage� myth(s) and Thomas Hobbes� “L𱹾ٳ󲹲� myth (violent primitive anarchy constrained by the benevolent State), the two “sides� of the modern debate, both assume a “primitive� stage.
--Since “stages� and “primitive� still run deep in mainstream imagination, Graeber/Wengrow presents a dynamic human history of conscious social experimentation, esp. the prominent example of seasonal fluidity between mass collective mobilization (i.e. harvests/festivals... often egalitarian) and nomadic bands (often hierarchical). However, "What is Politics?" highlights the obvious materialist factors of seasonal changes which Graeber/Wengrow obscure.
--Now, as my long preamble has warned, we should not confuse "public intellectuals" like Pinker/Harari with critical researchers in anthropology/archaeology, so in my third reading I'll focus on the debates/omissions of Graeber/Wengrow with the latter regarding "egalitarian hunter-gatherers" (discussed in the "What is Politics?" series):
i) Richard Borshay Lee, 1968 Man the Hunter: The First Intensive Survey of a Single, Crucial Stage of Human Development� Man’s Once Universal Hunting Way of Life, from the 1966 "Man the Hunter" symposium on hunter-gatherer research/"primitive communism", which Graeber/Wengrow tie to "behavioural ecology". "What is Politics?" highlights how Graeber/Wengrow connecting the "stupid savage" myth to post-1960 anthropology seem to rely solely on Colin Turnbull's 1961 The Forest People.
ii) James Woodburn, 1982 "" article (on "immediate return" hunter-gatherers).
iii) Christopher Boehm, 1999 Hierarchy in the Forest: The Evolution of Egalitarian Behavior (foundational synthesis of "reverse hierarchy")
iv) Chris Knight: 1991 Blood Relations: Menstruation and the Origins of Culture; also see this
v) Sarah Blaffer Hrdy, 1999 Mother Nature: Maternal Instincts and How They Shape the Human Species and 2009 Mothers and Others: The Evolutionary Origins of Mutual Understanding

Myth #2: Surplus from agriculture/technologies traps societies into inequality:
--This technocratic justification for stages is popular amongst mainstream luminaries like chronically-wrong Francis Fukuyama and an-atlas-is-my-bible Jared Diamond; Harari's Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind considers the framing of wheat domesticating humans.
--Graeber/Wengrow review Neolithic cultivation to contrast the biodiversity of Neolithic botanists (and egalitarianism from women’s roles becoming more visible) vs. the “bio-power� of agricultural food productionism/domestication rule over animals (crucial to our biodiversity crisis; Rob Wallace would love this!)� flexible/collective flood-retreat farming/“play farming�/“ecology of freedom� conscious choices and experimentation vs. Enclosures private property/full-time peasant toil/“ecological imperialism� environmental determinism�
--A finer distinction is considering the rigidity of the “grain states� concept by fellow anarchist/anthropologist James C. Scott.

Myth #3: Urbanization’s increasing complexity/scale requires hierarchical rule:
--Another technocratic justification for stages... Note: in systems theory, complex systems both in nature and in society do not require top-down organization.
--Graeber/Wengrow review early cities that lacked rulers and had various egalitarian schemes: Ukraine “mega-sites�, Uruk (Mesopotamia), Indus Valley, China’s “Late Neolithic�, Teotihuacan (Mesoamerica), etc. This reminds me of Michael Hudson (who collaborated with Graeber) on ancient Mesopotamian cities; a pity they didn’t co-author a book.

New framework, new questions:
--By debunking the myths underlying the “origins of inequality� question and revealing the dynamic social possibilities throughout human history, new questions surfaces: “how did we get stuck?� and can we escape?
...Harari: “There is no way out of the imagined order [...] when we break down our prison walls and run towards freedom we are in fact running into the more spacious exercise yard of a bigger prison.�. Mark Fisher's “Capitalist Realism: Is There No Alternative?� leaves a similar feeling, quite frankly.

…First, a new framework is considered:
--3 principles of domination (note: not all 3 have to be present; indeed they can be contradicting forces):
1) control force: sovereignty
2) control knowledge: bureaucratic administration (interesting to note the esoteric component of this bureaucratic “knowledge�, which we can connect to today's financial instruments + intellectual property rights regime!)
3) charismatic politics: heroic competition
--3 basic freedoms:
1) leave: “expectations that make freedom of movement possible � the norms of hospitality and asylum, civility and shelter� (of course, there are strong materialist factors here as to the physical ability to leave and find new land).
2) disobey
3) shape new social realities/switch between

--“How did we get stuck?�: a compelling first stab: The Roman Law roots of private property (right to use + enjoy products + *most crucially* right to damage/destroy) and its connection to slave law’s objectification (thus a “power� rather than a “right� involving mutual obligations negotiated with others)�
...Thus, the logic of war (arbitrary violence/interchangeable enemies) is inserted into the intimacy of domestic care (patriarchal household private property)... The effects on women and exiles regarding the basic freedoms
...The proliferation of “culture areas�/schismogenesis: “the process by which neighbouring groups began defining themselves against each other and, typically, exaggerating their differences. Identity came to be seen as a value in itself, setting in motion processes of cultural schismogenesis.� (for my 2nd reading, I tried to key in on this as I'm lacking in cultural studies; I need to review more of Graeber unpacking “identity politics� in politics/culture: ).

--We have a lot to work on and a lot to work with thanks to Graeber (RIP... here's Hudson and Steve Keen remembering Graeber: )
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Quotes Kevin Liked

David Graeber
“In the Middle Ages, most people in other parts of the world who actually knew anything about northern Europe at all considered it an obscure and uninviting backwater full of religious fanatics who, aside from occasional attacks on their neighbours (‘the Crusades�), were largely irrelevant to global trade and world politics. European intellectuals of that time were just rediscovering Aristotle and the ancient world, and had very little idea what people were thinking and arguing about anywhere else.”
David Graeber, The Dawn of Everything: A New History of Humanity

David Graeber
“Of course, this isn’t usually the way historians of ideas tell this story. Not only are we taught to think of intellectual history as something largely produced by individuals writing great books or thinking great thoughts, but these ‘great thinkers� are assumed to perform both these activities almost exclusively with reference to each other. As a result, even in cases where Enlightenment thinkers openly insisted they were getting their ideas from foreign sources (as the German philosopher Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz did when he urged his compatriots to adopt Chinese models of statecraft), there’s a tendency for contemporary historians to insist they weren’t really serious; or else that when they said they were embracing Chinese, or Persian, or indigenous American ideas these weren’t really Chinese, Persian or indigenous American ideas at all but ones they themselves had made up and merely attributed to exotic Others.”
David Graeber, The Dawn of Everything: A New History of Humanity

David Graeber
“The reason it is possible to imagine property as a relationship of domination between a person and a thing is because, in Roman Law, the power of the master rendered the slave a thing (res, meaning an object), not a person with social rights or legal obligations to anyone else. Property law, in turn, was largely about the complicated situations that might arise as a result. It is important to recall, for a moment, who these Roman jurists actually were that laid down the basis for our current legal order � our theories of justice, the language of contract and torts, the distinction of public and private and so forth. While they spent their public lives making sober judgments as magistrates, they lived their private lives in households where they not only had near-total authority over their wives, children and other dependants, but also had all their needs taken care of by dozens, perhaps hundreds of slaves.”
David Graeber, The Dawn of Everything: A New History of Humanity

David Graeber
“Slaves trimmed their hair, carried their towels, fed their pets, repaired their sandals, played music at their dinner parties and instructed their children in history and maths. At the same time, in terms of legal theory these slaves were classified as captive foreigners who, conquered in battle, had forfeited rights of any kind. As a result, the Roman jurist was free to rape, torture, mutilate or kill any of them at any time and in any way he had a mind to, without the matter being considered anything other than a private affair. (Only under the reign of Tiberius were any restrictions imposed on what a master could do to a slave, and what this meant was simply that permission from a local magistrate had to be obtained before a slave could be ripped apart by wild animals; other forms of execution could still be imposed at the owner’s whim.) On the one hand, freedom and liberty were private affairs; on the other, private life was marked by the absolute power of the patriarch over conquered people who were considered his private property.”
David Graeber, The Dawn of Everything: A New History of Humanity

David Graeber
“What is both striking and revealing, for our present purposes, is how in Roman jurisprudence the logic of war � which dictates that enemies are interchangeable, and if they surrendered they could either be killed or rendered ‘socially dead�, sold as commodities � and, therefore, the potential for arbitrary violence was inserted into the most intimate sphere of social relations, including the relations of care that made domestic life possible. Thinking back to examples like the ‘capturing societies� of Amazonia or the process by which dynastic power took root in ancient Egypt, we can begin to see how important that particular nexus of violence and care has been. Rome took the entanglement to new extremes, and its legacy still shapes our basic concepts of social structure.”
David Graeber, The Dawn of Everything: A New History of Humanity

David Graeber
“Mainly we were just curious about how the new archaeological evidence that had been building up for the last thirty years might change our notions of early human history, especially the parts bound up with debates on the origins of social inequality. Before long, though, we realized that what we were doing was potentially important, because hardly anyone else in our fields seemed to be doing this work of synthesis. Often, we found ourselves searching in vain for books that we assumed must exist but, it turns out, simply didn’t � for instance, compendia of early cities that lacked top-down governance, or accounts of how democratic decision-making was conducted in Africa or the Americas, or comparisons of what we’ve called ‘heroic societies�. The literature is riddled with absences.”
David Graeber, The Dawn of Everything: A New History of Humanity

David Graeber
“Max Planck once remarked that new scientific truths don’t replace old ones by convincing established scientists that they were wrong; they do so because proponents of the older theory eventually die, and generations that follow find the new truths and theories to be familiar, obvious even. We are optimists. We like to think it will not take that long.

In fact, we have already taken a first step. We can see more clearly now what is going on when, for example, a study that is rigorous in every other respect begins from the unexamined assumption that there was some ‘original� form of human society; that its nature was fundamentally good or evil; that a time before inequality and political awareness existed; that something happened to change all this; that ‘civilization� and ‘complexity� always come at the price of human freedoms; that participatory democracy is natural in small groups but cannot possibly scale up to anything like a city or a nation state.

We know, now, that we are in the presence of myths.”
David Graeber, The Dawn of Everything: A New History of Humanity

David Graeber
“Second, we can now see more clearly that domination begins at home. The fact that these arrangements became subjects of political contestation does not mean they were political in origin. Slavery finds its origins in war. But everywhere we encounter it slavery is also, at first, a domestic institution. Hierarchy and property may derive from notions of the sacred, but the most brutal forms of exploitation have their origins in the most intimate of social relations: as perversions of nurture, love and caring. Certainly, those origins are not to be found in government.”
David Graeber, The Dawn of Everything: A New History of Humanity

David Graeber
“We might refer to it, perhaps, as ‘inequality from below�. Domination first appears on the most intimate, domestic level. Self-consciously egalitarian politics emerge to prevent such relations from extending beyond those small worlds into the public sphere (which often comes to be imagined, in the process, as an exclusive sphere for adult men). These are the kind of dynamics that culminated in phenomena like ancient Athenian democracy. But their roots probably extend much further back in time, to well before the advent of farming and agricultural societies.”
David Graeber, The Dawn of Everything: A New History of Humanity

David Graeber
“Almost all these [Amerindian] societies took pride in their ability to adopt children or captives � even from among those whom they considered the most benighted of their neighbours � and, through care and education, turn them into what they considered to be proper human beings. Slaves, it follows, were an anomaly: people who were neither killed nor adopted, but who hovered somewhere in between; abruptly and violently suspended in the midpoint of a process that should normally lead from prey to pet to family. As such, the captive as slave becomes trapped in the role of ‘caring for others�, a non-person whose work is largely directed towards enabling those others to become persons, warriors, princesses, ‘human beings� of a particularly valued and special kind.

As these examples show, if we want to understand the origins of violent domination in human societies, this is precisely where we need to look. Mere acts of violence are passing; acts of violence transformed into caring relations have a tendency to endure.”
David Graeber, The Dawn of Everything: A New History of Humanity

David Graeber
“When sovereignty first expands to become the general organizing principle of a society, it is by turning violence into kinship. The early, spectacular phase of mass killing in both China and Egypt, whatever else it may be doing, appears to be intended to lay the foundations of what Max Weber referred to as a ‘patrimonial system�: that is, one in which all the kings� subjects are imagined as members of the royal household, at least to the degree that they are all working to care for the king. Turning erstwhile strangers into part of the royal household, or denying them their own ancestors, are thereby ultimately two sides of the same coin. Or to put things another way, a ritual designed to produce kinship becomes a method of producing kingship.”
David Graeber, The Dawn of Everything: A New History of Humanity

David Graeber
“Perhaps this is what a state actually is: a combination of exceptional violence and the creation of a complex social machine, all ostensibly devoted to acts of care and devotion.

There is obviously a paradox here. Caring labour is in a way the very opposite of mechanical labour: it is about recognizing and understanding the unique qualities, needs and peculiarities of the cared-for � whether child, adult, animal or plant � in order to provide what they require to flourish. Caring labour is distinguished by its particularity. If those institutions we today refer to as ‘states� really do have any common features, one must certainly be a tendency to displace this caring impulse on to abstractions; today this is usually ‘the nation�, however broadly or narrowly defined. Perhaps this is why it’s so easy for us to see ancient Egypt as a prototype for the modern state: here too, popular devotion was diverted on to grand abstractions, in this case the ruler and the elite dead. This process is what made it possible for the whole arrangement to be imagined, simultaneously, as a family and as a machine, in which everyone (except of course the king) was ultimately interchangeable. From the seasonal work of tomb-building to the daily servicing of the ruler’s body (recall again how the first royal inscriptions are found on combs and make-up palettes), most of human activity was directed upwards, either towards tending rulers (living and dead) or assisting them with their own task of feeding and caring for the gods.”
David Graeber, The Dawn of Everything: A New History of Humanity

David Graeber
“One might ask, how could that most basic element of all human freedoms, the freedom to make promises and commitments and thus build relationships, be turned into its very opposite: into peonage, serfdom or permanent slavery? It happens, we’d suggest, precisely when promises become impersonal, transferable � in a nutshell, bureaucratized.”
David Graeber, The Dawn of Everything: A New History of Humanity

David Graeber
“They are also difficult to reconcile with archaeological evidence of how cities actually began in many parts of the world: as civic experiments on a grand scale, which frequently lacked the expected features of administrative hierarchy and authoritarian rule. We do not possess an adequate terminology for these early cities. To call them ‘egalitarian�, as we’ve seen, could mean quite a number of different things. It might imply an urban parliament and co-ordinated projects of social housing, as with some pre-Columbian centres in the Americas; or the self-organizing of autonomous households into neighbourhoods and citizens� assemblies, as with prehistoric mega-sites north of the Black Sea; or, perhaps, the introduction of some explicit notion of equality based on principles of uniformity and sameness, as in Uruk-period Mesopotamia.

None of this variability is surprising once we recall what preceded cities in each region. That was not, in fact, rudimentary or isolated groups, but far-flung networks of societies, spanning diverse ecologies, with people, plants, animals, drugs, objects of value, songs and ideas moving between them in endlessly intricate ways. While the individual units were demographically small, especially at certain times of year, they were typically organized into loose coalitions or confederacies. At the very least, these were simply the logical outcome of our first freedom: to move away from one’s home, knowing one will be received and cared for, even valued, in some distant place. At most they were examples of ‘amphictyony�, in which some kind of formal organization was put in charge of the care and maintenance of sacred places. It seems that Marcel Mauss had a point when he argued that we should reserve the term ‘civilization� for great hospitality zones such as these. Of course, we are used to thinking of ‘civilization� as something that originates in cities � but, armed with new knowledge, it seems more realistic to put things the other way round and to imagine the first cities as one of those great regional confederacies, compressed into a small space.”
David Graeber, The Dawn of Everything: A New History of Humanity


Reading Progress

May 24, 2021 – Shelved
October 28, 2021 – Started Reading
October 31, 2021 – Started Reading
October 31, 2021 – Finished Reading
November 20, 2021 – Finished Reading

Comments Showing 1-50 of 74 (74 new)


message 1: by muthuvel (new) - added it

muthuvel Love your articulation, Kevin. Hoping to get a copy real soon. Thanks for sharing!


Gustav Osberg Great review, Kevin. Happy that you’ve already tackled this final work of grabber. It’s crazy how many of our discourses and common sense is still stuck in enlightenment thinking, reproduced through works such as Sapiens but presented as an innovative look at “our� history. I’m curious to read more about the 3 freedoms and the new framework and questions which Graeber left for us


Kevin muthuvel wrote: "Love your articulation, Kevin. Hoping to get a copy real soon. Thanks for sharing!"

My pleasure Muthuvel, the best way to celebrate Graeber is to engage with his work, looking forward to your reflections on it :)


Kevin Gustav wrote: "Great review, Kevin. Happy that you’ve already tackled this final work of grabber. It’s crazy how many of our discourses and common sense is still stuck in enlightenment thinking, reproduced throug..."

Cheers Gustav, I've been growing more impatient esp. following Steve Keen unpack how mainstream economics is completely trivializing the ecological crisis, so decided to hit a reset button with Graeber ;)

Sapiens: if you read it do share a review, I've done my fair share with Pinker/Diamond lol.

New framework: so much was introduced in the last chapter, I'm re-reading the book to play around with this and test it with the history that follows in "Debt: the first 5000 Years".

Since you're in social science research, there's some great quotes you'll enjoy, ex:

"Why are we entertaining such ideas? Why does it seem so odd, even counter-intuitive, to imagine people of the remote past as making their own history (even if not under conditions of their own choosing)? Part of the answer no doubt lies in how we have come to define science itself, and social science in particular.

Social science has been largely a study of the ways in which human beings are not free: the way that our actions and understandings might be said to be determined by forces outside our control. Any account which appears to show human beings collectively shaping their own destiny, or even expressing freedom for its own sake, will likely be written off as illusory, awaiting ‘real� scientific explanation; or if none is forthcoming (why do people dance?), as outside the scope of social theory entirely. This is one reason why most ‘big histories� place such a strong focus on technology. Dividing up the human past according to the primary material from which tools and weapons were made (Stone Age, Bronze Age, Iron Age) or else describing it as a series of revolutionary breakthroughs (Agricultural Revolution, Urban Revolution, Industrial Revolution), they then assume that the technologies themselves largely determine the shape that human societies will take for centuries to come � or at least until the next abrupt and unexpected breakthrough comes along to change everything again."


Kevin Carson "smug muppet Steven Pinker (the Ayn Rand for Bill Gates)" God bless you for this.


message 6: by Kevin (last edited Nov 01, 2021 11:37AM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Kevin Kevin wrote: ""smug muppet Steven Pinker (the Ayn Rand for Bill Gates)" God bless you for this."

compared to you, I dial back my vitriol haha


message 7: by Camilla (new) - added it

Camilla Roman law's particular conception of property in the light of slavery permeating modern legal systems was already discussed in Debt. Has something new been added to this discussion in this book?


Kevin September wrote: "Roman law's particular conception of property in the light of slavery permeating modern legal systems was already discussed in Debt. Has something new been added to this discussion in this book?"

Good point. I think the main addition is a broader framing of how human societies have been stuck with oppressive hierarchies ("Debt: the first 5,000 years") given the prior fluidity and social experimentation on various scales (this book). This is where the "3 Principles of Domination" comes in, where prior experimentation are considered ("first-order" regimes predicated on just 1 principle, "second-order" regimes combining 2 principles, etc.). The "3 Basic Freedoms" were introduced later to be synthesized. For example, in considering the social relations for women, refugees/outcasts/war captives in prior social experiments and how/why this has changed.

“It meant asking, for instance, what happens if we accord significance to the 5,000 years in which cereal domestication did *not* lead to the emergence of pampered aristocracies, standing armies or debt peonage, rather than just the 5,000 in which it did? What happens if we treat the rejection of urban life, or of slavery, in certain times and places as something just as significant as the emergence of those same phenomena in others?�


SneakyReader I wonder if Wengrow will continue the project. This was supposed to be the first of 3 books. We will miss you Graeber!


Kevin SneakyReader wrote: "I wonder if Wengrow will continue the project. This was supposed to be the first of 3 books. We will miss you Graeber!"

Whoa, I didn't realize they planned 3 books! Michael Hudson mentions Graeber was last working with Marshall Sahlins ("Stone Age Economics") on a theory of the Neolithic agricultural societies fleeing from violent hunter-gatherer societies. I still need to read their Graeber/Sahlins' "On Kings".


message 11: by Ben (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ben Can’t wait to read this


Kevin Ben wrote: "Can’t wait to read this"

Ben, since you've read Graeber's "Fragments of an Anarchist Anthropology", James C. Scott, etc, have you come across discussions on "culture areas" and "cultural schismogenesis"?


Kevin Carson Not only was there 5000 years in which cereal domestication didn't lead to class stratification and states, but even afterward it only occurred in a tiny portion of the agricultural world and then spread from those crystallization points. Michael Mann makes a pretty convincing argument that states don't emerge from agriculture as a general phenomenon, but only in the specific cases of riverine areas with alluvial agriculture. I believe he actually argued that the counter-measures built into agrarian society outside riverine areas were sufficient to prevent the emergence of states.


message 14: by Kevin (last edited Nov 21, 2021 02:10PM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Kevin Kevin wrote: "Not only was there 5000 years in which cereal domestication didn't lead to class stratification and states, but even afterward it only occurred in a tiny portion of the agricultural world and then ..."

"Agricultural trap": great reference on Michael Mann (I assume that would be "The Sources of Social Power: Volume 1, a History of Power from the Beginning to Ad 1760"?). How did you find James C. Scott's analysis on "grain states"? Graeber/Wengrow suggests more flexibility and ability to change course/leave.

Emergence of states: Graeber/Wengrow's further challenge is the assumption that even with the emergence of states, that these automatically meant the trap of escalating hierarchical rule. They contrast inequality-from-below with egalitarian political measures:

"Second, we can now see more clearly that domination begins at home. The fact that these arrangements became subjects of political contestation does not mean they were political in origin. Slavery finds its origins in war. But everywhere we encounter it slavery is also, at first, a domestic institution. Hierarchy and property may derive from notions of the sacred, but the most brutal forms of exploitation have their origins in the most intimate of social relations: as perversions of nurture, love and caring. Certainly, those origins are not to be found in government."

"As our story continues, we will encounter this dynamic repeatedly. We might refer to it, perhaps, as ‘inequality from below�. Domination first appears on the most intimate, domestic level. Self-consciously egalitarian politics emerge to prevent such relations from extending beyond those small worlds into the public sphere (which often comes to be imagined, in the process, as an exclusive sphere for adult men). These are the kind of dynamics that culminated in phenomena like ancient Athenian democracy. But their roots probably extend much further back in time, to well before the advent of farming and agricultural societies."


Kevin Carson That's the one!
I haven't read Against the Grain yet.


Kevin Kevin wrote: "That's the one!
I haven't read Against the Grain yet."


Did you ever explore Mauss or Levi-Strauss?
With Bookchin, would you recommend diving into Ecology of Freedom?


Kevin Carson No to the first two. Ecology of Freedom is fairly idiosyncratic -- as one would expect, and as Graeber is as well -- but there's enough valuable material there to make it worthwhile. Plus even at his crankiest Bookchin is an interesting commentator.


Kevin Carson Kevin wrote: "No to the first two. Ecology of Freedom is fairly idiosyncratic -- as one would expect, and as Graeber is as well -- but there's enough valuable material there to make it worthwhile. Plus even at h..."

The man had a lot of very strong opinions, and a lot of deeply felt grudges, LOL


message 19: by Kevin (last edited Dec 14, 2021 04:41PM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Kevin Kevin wrote: "No to the first two. Ecology of Freedom is fairly idiosyncratic -- as one would expect, and as Graeber is as well -- but there's enough valuable material there to make it worthwhile. Plus even at h..."

Ah I see. Any recommendations on a critical look at the legacy of Darwinian competition vs. Kropotkin cooperation in the sciences/social sciences/politics historically?

Regarding cranky Bookchin, can you summarize what Bob Black's beef with Bookchin was about?


Kevin Carson I can't think of anything like that, but I'd love to see a critical treatment of the issues between Kropotkin & Graeber, vs. Pinker and his ilk (and I use the term "ilk" advisedly).

In the case of Bookchin vs. Black, I'm not sure what set it off or who struck the first blow. But Black personifies everything I hate about post-leftism and is a thoroughly wretched creature, so I'm inclined to apportion most of the blame to him.


message 21: by Camilla (last edited Dec 15, 2021 07:58AM) (new) - added it

Camilla Still digging re: IP origin source, but re: Darwinian competition in sciences/social science/politics, mayhaps Evolutionary Epistemology and the limits thereof a la Gerhard Vollmer may be of use (caveat: may only be available in German).

/book/show/4...


Kevin Kevin wrote: "I can't think of anything like that, but I'd love to see a critical treatment of the issues between Kropotkin & Graeber, vs. Pinker and his ilk (and I use the term "ilk" advisedly).

In the case of..."


so it was just a personal beef between Black/Bookchin, it didn't stretch much into theory? Then I guess my question is more what your take is on post-leftism?


Kevin September wrote: "Still digging re: IP origin source, but re: Darwinian competition in sciences/social science/politics, mayhaps Evolutionary Epistemology and the limits thereof a la Gerhard Vollmer may be of use (c..."

Cheers Leopold, I'll take a look for any English translations.
RE: IP (more on the modern industrial changes), I've been meaning to explore David F. Noble for a while (referenced by Chomsky, Kevin Carson has read him, I see you've added his books), esp. "America by Design: Science, Technology, and the Rise of Corporate Capitalism" and " Forces of Production: A Social History of Industrial Automation"; they look quite dense (detailed case studies); as always, I wish there were some concise summaries.


message 24: by Camilla (new) - added it

Camilla Ah - my former innovation and technology management lecturer (Jonathan Liebenau) is a great fan of 'America by Design'.

Together with 'Autonomous Technology' by Langdon Winner and 'The Social Construction of Technological Systems: new directions in the sociology and history of technology ' by Bijker et al;
it forms the capstone of the undergrad/master hybrid course. Titular week 'How Technology takes control' (maybe a discussion on technocratic dogma?).

I mean to read it in the near-ish future (give or take 2 years). Will gladly summarise key ideas for you (if you can wait that long) :p

Otherwise looking forward to reading your summary!


Kevin Carson Kevin wrote: "September wrote: "Still digging re: IP origin source, but re: Darwinian competition in sciences/social science/politics, mayhaps Evolutionary Epistemology and the limits thereof a la Gerhard Vollme..."

The converse is that social systems select between alternative technological paths in order to maximize one kind of efficiency rather than others (in capitalism's case a choice of efficiency in surplus extraction at the cost of inefficiency in use of artificially cheap, enclosed/subsidized resource inputs). And those engaged in building a successor system or counter-system in the interstices of capitalism can choose alternative technologies that optimize different standards of efficiency.


message 26: by Camilla (new) - added it

Camilla Aha! A social shaping of the technologies, or even a dialectic a la Pashal Preston (/book/show/6...).

If you accept Perez' paradigm of socio-technical revolutions, then what we are seeing is a prolongation of the mass prodcution revolution by outsourcing production to China, and other destinations where labor is cheap to come by (now increasingly Africa?).

I would say perhaps the notion of 'efficiency' itself is pernicious - though maybe also not, I'm not sure. :)


message 27: by Kevin (last edited Dec 16, 2021 01:01PM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Kevin September wrote: "Aha! A social shaping of the technologies, or even a dialectic a la Pashal Preston (/book/show/6...).

Nice references Leopold, it might take me just as long to get to Noble lol so we'll have to keep each other posted. Much of social science theory seems to be adjusting to the jargon, so while I'm not familiar with Perez' "paradigm of socio-technical revolutions", I assume there is much to synthesize with political economy (ex. World-Systems analysis on cycles of accumulation, Harvey's spatial-temporal fixes of capitalist contradictions, social reproduction/historical materialism, etc.).

Kevin Carson definitely summarized a key framework, where "efficiency" in capitalist technological change is based on surplus extraction. Thus, a key component is power over labour (a crucial input), and folks like Andreas Malm have provided compelling arguments on how what may have seemed like technical "inefficiencies" for certain paths make much more sense when considering control of labour (including negating protests and preventing autonomy/independence).

And on the technical systems side, "efficiency" tends to mean lack of redundancy and thus lack of resiliency, which makes sense in mainstream Economics' utopic Neoclassical paradigm of economic equilibrium devoid of structural dynamics that can lead to crises (i.e. crisis must be exogenous). This convenient assumption covering up a colonialist ideology can get by when there is so much to colonize (global labour/ecology) and so much buffer to the costs, but eventually...


message 28: by Camilla (last edited Dec 16, 2021 10:10PM) (new) - added it

Camilla I think there is a proposensity in the West to 'atomise', to see everything as divided and isolated rather than connected, and hence to see everything as measurable.

There are things we cannot pinpoint down as such (What is the damage caused by the stigmatization of gay black men by the UK government during the early days of AIDS?).

Increasingly I have come to think of economics as a science that 'ignores reality'.

But anyways, I found the reference:

The Patent Controversy in the Nineteenth Century - Fritz Machlup and Edith Penrose, 1950

(This is an interest of mine - how we appropriate and commodify knowledge when the replication cost is essentially zero. What is interesting is that one can critique this from a free-market stance, in which patents confer monopolies and hence 'inefficiency', or from a realistic point of view that keeping innovations siloed is damaging and stifles further innovations. Besides, private enterprise is hardly the loci of innovations.)

Re: Carlota Perez, it was interesting to talk to her to understand why she is beholden to and tries to work with the capitalist system (among other things, the woman is absolutely brilliant). She spent a lot of time under a totally corrupt Venezuelan government leaving her jaded towards socialist promises.

I believe Technological Revolutions and Techno-Economic Paradigms is a good starting point, though beware, there is a lot of jargon abound. :)


message 29: by Camilla (new) - added it

Camilla Notably Machlup and Penrose 1950 is not the original source I am referencing, but it is still close enough in discussion that I think one obtains a picture. The OG source is still misplaced, alas.

Something interesting from M&P:

The most prolific advocate of per-petual patent protection was the Belgian, J.-B.-A.-M. Jobard, who be- tween 1829 and 1852 published no less than forty-eight books, ranging from brief pamphlets to five-hundred-page tomes, on the same subject. The 'idee fixe' which possessed him was that everyone had a permanent and inalienable natural right to the sole disposal of himself and his work. For this right he coined the term "monautopoly," meaning a monopoly of oneself. Competition, to him, was the cause of poverty- one of his mottos was, "Ne laissez pas tous faire, ne laissez pas tout passer"-and tariffs and patents, both institutions for the restriction of competition, were the two most important factors in progress.30 This issue, tariff and patent protectionism versus free trade, external and internal, was joined by most economists of the i86o's and I870's. Among French economists, Michel Chevalier was probably the most emphatic in the joint antagonism to tariffs and patents, declaring that both "stem from the same doctrine and result in the same abuses. (p.9)


message 30: by Kevin (last edited Dec 18, 2021 12:28PM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Kevin September wrote: "I think there is a proposensity in the West to 'atomise', to see everything as divided and isolated rather than connected, and hence to see everything as measurable.

RE: "atomise": ah, you're digging deeper here, this reminds me of the critiques of scientific reductionism (useful for experimentation) bleeding into crude social theory. This was touched on nicely in Hickel's "Less is More" (also in Klein's "This Changes Everything" I believe) regarding early science (Bacon, Descartes) dualism (humans vs. nature, mind vs. body) and how this was convenient for industrial capitalism's exploitation of land and labour (where colonialism was even more remote, thus my focus in critiquing "Western" economics).

...This is also why I was asking Kevin Carson about analysis on Darwin vs. Kroptkin. It's fascinating considering social context and the interactions between "science" and social theory; ex. Malthus' influence on Darwin.

As for "economics as a science that 'ignores reality'", I'd more precisely label modern mainstream economics ("Neoclassical") as this. Other schools have other biases but you have to start from somewhere to conceptualize "economics".

RE: patents: cheers, thanks for digging this up. Regarding "free market", we can distinguish Neoclassical free market theology from Classical reformist "freeing the market from economic rent". We agree the latter would critique patent monopolies that reward rent-seeking and burden innovation. The former can simply externalize such contradictions by (1) focusing on the brief moment of market exchange (obscuring the rent/monopolistic privileges of accumulated property/money-power, and the broader history of property rights i.e. violent plunder + elitist privatization)
(2) abstract justifications of entrepreneurial incentive (once again focused on market exchange and not state/social value creation)

RE: "corruption": yeah that's too bad, I hope we can move away from this bipolar "government" "bureaucracy" vs. "free market" paradigm (which will always have rules + power relations thus "corruption", as if markets dictated by Wall Street and WTO are somehow "free").


message 31: by Camilla (new) - added it

Camilla Yes - ironically, it allows to build a socialist intellectual property (footnote 1) system based on Austrian (radical free-marketeer) economics. Machlup, one of the two authors, wrote his dissertation under Ludwig von Mises at the University of Vienna. I will send you what I have so far by DM so as to not self-plagiarize myself.

1: IP advocates used a linguistic sleight of hand to discombobulate the appropriation of ideas, written works and innovations as 'property'. Quite similar to how Milton Friedman kept using the terms 'property' and 'freedom' together to make the latter contingent on the former, when in reality they don't really have that relationship.

Anyways, do check out Eric von Hippel's 'Free Innovation'. Some really interesting ideas here that may translate to the health sector.


Kevin September wrote: "Yes - ironically, it allows to build a socialist intellectual property (footnote 1) system based on Austrian (radical free-marketeer) economics. Machlup, one of the two authors, wrote his dissertat..."

It is quite interesting how pro-capitalists handle their own contradictions, ex. "competition" (volatile, ruthless, disruptive "anarchy of the market"), both:
a) theoretically: resorting to enforcing more property rights
b) in practice: given uneven development globally, ignoring such property rights when convenient (as long as having the power to) during domestic industrialization while imposing asymmetric rules on others below the ladder (imperialism).


message 33: by Camilla (new) - added it

Camilla Indeed. One would posit the law as crucial here. I've only read small parts of 'The Code of Capital' by Katherina Pistor, but she raises some good points about the process.

A sci-fi that explores this idea is Newitz' 'Autonomous'. As Graeber describes, the role of law can become especially pernicious when propertization is used to make slavery legal.


Morgan Blackledge Oh yeah. Great review. I agree (I think 🤔).


message 35: by Kevin (last edited Feb 28, 2022 05:47PM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Kevin My reply to the critical article "'The Dawn of Everything' gets human history wrong" linked in my review:

There are indeed valid critiques (stylistically, the book is swimming in provocative rhetoric, opening the door for misreading; also, omissions), but I don't see much merit in jumping head-first at the rhetoric challenge.

I do agree part of the blame goes back to the book for opening this door (although on the positive side, we are all debating and refining our understanding of all these topics *when/if* we get pass the rhetorical confusion, which should have been the book's humble intent once we read pass the "Everything" publisher's rhetoric).

I looked past such rhetoric when I read it since the core of the book appeared clear: challenging liberal Enlightenment notions of "inequality" by arguing Rosseau's "noble savage" is actually rendered as "stupid savage" in how it trivializes social consciousness/agency, as well as reductionist stage theories. Thankfully, critical academics/Marxists avoid actually critiquing this.

What we do find instead:

1) I don't see any fundamental disagreements with Marxists/critical academics (esp. dialectics of historical materialism, i.e. the interactions of material conditions + ideas in shaping human history), only overblown confusion over rhetoric and omissions (the latter to be expected with such an ambitious book):
--"But Graeber and Wengrow want change without attending to equality and class, and they are hostile to environmental and ecological explanations."
--"They reject arguments that there are environmental and technical limits to the choices people can and do make. For them, in short, people make history in circumstances of their own choosing."
...One can critique the book's contradictions between rhetoric vs. examples, but these blatantly-false statements take provocative rhetoric to ridiculous levels, so much so that I feel vicarious embarrassment for the writers' academic labels (oh well, such labels are a bit pretentious anyways).
...The book openly praises Marx's people-make-their-own-history-but-they-do-not-make-it-as-they-please dialectical materialism/historical materialism and I actually read the book with such a synthesis in mind (dare-I-say more Marxist than some Marxists).
...It was very clear in going after liberalism's ecological determinism of the Jared-Diamond type + economic rationality cost-benefit analysis infesting behavioral ecology (i.e. optimal foraging theory)/evolutionary theory, challenging it with sociopolitical interaction of power/property rights/cultural identity etc. Of course the article agrees with this core, so we are left debating the rhetoric.
--"And it becomes clear, their enemy is not inequality, it is the state."
...What a mess. Firstly, "anarchist" Graeber is actually quite nuanced on "the state", as one of the provocative points raised is the existence of surprisingly-egalitarian states/large scale yet fluid social relations while small bands can be hierarchical . There seems to be confusion around "inequality"; indeed, the book suggests 2 ways inequality is dealt with: quantifiable equality measures, or such diverse conditions where quantification becomes meaningless.

2) Plenty of healthy debates over details:
--"The only science they do recognize is applied science � in this case, “archaeological science�, and then only if the archaeology doesn’t go too far back. They justify dating “the Dawn of Everything� to a mere 40,000 years ago by arguing that nothing about politics or social life can be gleaned from archaic human “cranial remains and the occasional piece of knapped flint�. This excuse looks weak in the light of compelling recent evidence that our species� most unique trait � art and symbolic culture � emerged in Africa three or four times earlier than was previously thought. By no means limited to bones and stones, the evidence consists of beads, geometric engravings, burials with grave goods and artefacts such as grindstones and paint pots, all invariably found in association with red ochre."
--"But if you are wondering how or why humans first began laughing, singing, speaking and creating art, ritual and politics � you’ll be disappointed."
--"The story begins far too late, systematically side-stepping the cultural flowering that began in Africa tens of thousands of years before Homo sapiens arrived in Europe."
...Indeed, the book does take a provocative leap in not fully reviewing all the research here, but seriously the "science" summarized by the article remain predictably distant (ex. evolutionary theory involving primate infanticide, human anatomical changes) and vague on what "egalitarian" actually means in complex social relations ...as it really mostly says humans didn't just tear each other apart with large teeth, male violence from size, promiscuity of large testicles, etc. but cooperated; but in social sciences, there are many different forms of cooperation (heck, capitalist markets are a form of complex social cooperation in the broad sense).
...To assume "science" has this well-established ("last piece of the puzzle") is bizarre when so much of the question resolves around social sciences, which has a wide range of debates in describing even today's social condition (unless we once again take the trope that in earlier times human society was just "simple").
...Much of the remaining debates still fit with the space opened by the book, if not directly agreeing with the books points, esp. regarding importance of property rights/sexism/migration, fluidity during agriculture, etc. etc. So yes, I agree that this book deserves numerous volumes.


Simon Parent I think you'd enjoy the review by the youtube channel "What is Politics?", where he dissected this book.


message 37: by Kevin (last edited Mar 05, 2022 12:39PM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Kevin Simon wrote: "I think you'd enjoy the review by the youtube channel "What is Politics?", where he dissected this book."

Cheers Simon, yes it's about time I go through those videos, although I assume it's similar to the Marxist article I unpacked above.

I find myself thinking Graeber should have eased off the "Everything" rhetoric; it also reminds me of his "Bullshit Jobs" rhetoric which was indeed catchy and useful for liberals/Keynesians/vulgar Marxists, but a miss for critical Marxists (since, from memory, it lacked synthesis with Marx's value theory of capitalism, i.e. exchange-value over use-value, surplus value exploitation, productive/unproductive labour, social reproduction, etc.).

So far the Marxist critiques I've gone through have mirrored the rhetoric back, i.e. Graeber/Wengrow = absolute idealists, rejecting any material basis, what postmodern fools... except they literally praise Marx's dialectical framework and are mostly emphasizing flexibility within material basis in social arrangements (update: I personally lack patience for that style of video narration, I just don't learn much from that internet meme-war style).

Now, within the narrower range of debate (blurry gaps/different framing/contradictions in radical scholarship between sociobiological/evolutionary theory and archaeology), there are plenty of healthy debates and also plenty of shared critiques of liberals/vulgarity (which, as with Bullshit Jobs, seems to be this book's primary focus for better or for worse).


Simon Parent You are very right, there's an element of this kind of Historical Dialectic critique that the host of "What is Politics?" does. He's an Anarchist with an education in anthropology, but talks about similar blindspots to those you highlighted.


message 39: by Frank (new)

Frank Kool You seem very resentful.


Kevin Frank wrote: "You seem very resentful."

Cheers, that's a compliment coming from you :)


message 41: by Frank (new)

Frank Kool How so?


message 42: by T. (new) - added it

T. T. Hello Kevin, I am thinking to read the book, but meanwhile I have wondered beforehand whether Graeber/Wengrow are giving an example of any agricultural society which functioned totally Anarchistically or without classes so to speak? Because as I far as I know the dawn of classes matches the dawn of agriculture.


Kevin Frank wrote: "How so?"

Momentary appreciation for a snowflake one-liner, don't sweat it ;)


Kevin T. wrote: "Hello Kevin, I am thinking to read the book, but meanwhile I have wondered beforehand whether Graeber/Wengrow are giving an example of any agricultural society which functioned totally Anarchistica..."

Hi T., ah, this deserves a proper reply, let me consult my notes first and get back to you.


message 45: by T. (new) - added it

T. T. Thank you Kevin.


message 46: by Kevin (last edited Aug 08, 2022 10:46PM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Kevin T. wrote: "Thank you Kevin."

Hi T.,

RE: "dawn of classes matches the dawn of agriculture":

--The authors would want to play with this assumption that agriculture (given its production of concentrated surplus) created classes. Now, every framework has to start somewhere, so from a materialist/political economy standpoint I of course see the merit in starting with the production of surplus and then how it is distributed.
--The authors are thankfully not rejecting a materialist analysis (despite some hyperbolic rhetoric here and there), but are challenging some of the determinism/rigidity (ex. stages of development) in materialist analyses by focusing on the flexibility in social relations:
i) Seasonal fludity (cycles of collective abundance followed by nomadic hierarchical scarcity). This includes the Nambikwara (citing Levis-Strauss), the Inuit, seasonal state projects/festivals/trials, etc.
ii) Diverse experiments in ecology of early cities not completely dependent in draining rural full-time peasants and relative lack of rulers: Ukraine mega sites, Uruk Mesopotamia, Indus Valley, late Neolithic China, etc.

RE: "example of any agricultural society which functioned totally Anarchistically or without classes":

--This book's original premise was indeed to examine the origins of "inequality", but once again focuses on the flexibility in which human societies have dealt with this, from standardization of goods (a form of equality) to great diversification (another form of equality).
--I'm not much of a utopian so I'm not sure how you define "totally" anything.
-ex. If by "class" you mean the Marxist critique of unequal relations to production, the authors would play with this communal ownership of production form of equality with the "from each according to their ability, to each according to their needs" liberty balanced with mutual aid.
-ex. If by "anarchy" you mean lack of power, then once again how would you classify "ability"? Would a chief with no violent cohesive powers reliant on persuasion through own sacrifices/diplomacy be "power", esp. if this role is rotational?
--Once again, I'm using this book as a synthesis rather than a rejection of materialist analysis.


Kevin RE: RE: "example of any agricultural society which functioned totally Anarchistically or without classes":

Here's a useful passage from Graeber's Debt book Ch.5 (you can see some needlessly-provocative jabs at Marxists whereas I use it as another angle to synthesize; bold emphases added):

"I will define communism here as any human relationship that operates on the principles of “from each according to their abilities, to each according to their needs.�

I admit that the usage here is a bit provocative.[...]

Our thinking about communism has been dominated by a myth. Once upon a time, humans held all things in common—whether in the Garden of Eden, during the Golden Age of Saturn, or in Paleolithic hunter-gatherer bands. Then came the Fall, as a result of which we are now cursed with divisions of power and private property. The dream was that someday, with the advance of technology and general prosperity, with social revolution or the guidance of the Party, we would finally be in a position to put things back, to restore common ownership and common management of collective resources. Throughout the last two centuries, Communists and anti-Communists argued over how plausible this picture was and whether it would be a blessing or a nightmare. But they all agreed on the basic framework: communism was about collective property, “primitive communism� did once exist in the distant past, and someday it might return.

We might call this “mythic communism”—or even “epic communism”—a story we like to tell ourselves. Since the days of the French Revolution, it has inspired millions; but it has also done enormous damage to humanity. It’s high time, I think, to brush the entire argument aside. In fact, “communism� is not some magical utopia, and neither does it have anything to do with ownership of the means of production. It is something that exists right now—that exists, to some degree, in any human society, although there has never been one in which everything has been organized in that way, and it would be difficult to imagine how there could be. All of us act like communists a good deal of the time. None of us act like a communist consistently. “Communist society”—in the sense of a society organized exclusively on that single principle—could never exist. But all social systems, even economic systems like capitalism, have always been built on top of a bedrock of actually-existing communism.

Starting, as I say, from the principle of “from each according to their abilities, to each according to their needs� allows us to look past the question of individual or private ownership (which is often little more than formal legality anyway) and at much more immediate and practical questions of who has access to what sorts of things and under what conditions. Whenever it is the operative principle, even if it’s just two people who are interacting, we can say we are in the presence of a sort of communism.

Almost everyone follows this principle if they are collaborating on some common project. If someone fixing a broken water pipe says, “Hand me the wrench,� his co-worker will not, generally speaking, say, “And what do I get for it?”—even if they are working for Exxon-Mobil, Burger King, or Goldman Sachs. The reason is simple efficiency (ironically enough, considering the conventional wisdom that “communism just doesn’t work�): if you really care about getting something done, the most efficient way to go about it is obviously to allocate tasks by ability and give people whatever they need to do them. One might even say that it’s one of the scandals of capitalism that most capitalist firms, internally, operate communistically. True, they don’t tend to operate very democratically. Most often they are organized around military-style top-down chains of command. But there is often an interesting tension here, because top-down chains of command are not particularly efficient: they tend to promote stupidity among those on top and resentful foot-dragging among those on the bottom. The greater the need to improvise, the more democratic the cooperation tends to become. Inventors have always understood this, start-up capitalists frequently figure it out, and computer engineers have recently rediscovered the principle: not only with things like freeware, which everyone talks about, but even in the organization of their businesses.

This is presumably also why in the immediate wake of great disasters—a flood, a blackout, or an economic collapse—people tend to behave the same way, reverting to a rough-and-ready communism. However briefly, hierarchies and markets and the like become luxuries that no one can afford. Anyone who has lived through such a moment can speak to their peculiar qualities, the way that strangers become sisters and brothers and human society itself seems to be reborn. This is important, because it shows that we are not simply talking about cooperation. In fact, communism is the foundation of all human sociability. It is what makes society possible. There is always an assumption that anyone who is not an enemy can be expected to act on the principle of “from each according to their abilities,� at least to an extent: for example, if one needs to figure out how to get somewhere and the other knows the way.

We so take this for granted, in fact, that the exceptions are themselves revealing.[...]

I will call this “baseline communism�: the understanding that, unless people consider themselves enemies, if the need is considered great enough, or the cost considered reasonable enough, the principle of “from each according to their abilities, to each according to their needs� will be assumed to apply."


Steve Lawless Reading it now and loving it. Recommending it all over the place.


Kevin Steve wrote: "Reading it now and loving it. Recommending it all over the place."

That's great Steve! I do think this book is worth pairing with the article "‘The Dawn of Everything� gets human history wrong" from Climate and Capitalism. If both "sides" stripped away their rhetoric, there's actually a lot to synthesize :)


Pedro L. Fragoso Amazing review, thank you; I'm reading the book and enjoying it immensely.


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