Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ

Ian "Marvin" Graye's Reviews > Embassytown

Embassytown by China Miéville
Rate this book
Clear rating

by
5022264
's review

it was amazing
bookshelves: mieville, read-2013, reviews, reviews-5-stars

Proem: In Which an Ambassador Iangrayetiates Himself With His Host With Impunity

Is a simile
Like a metaphor?
I cannot espouse
This figure of speech.
This not unlike that?
One word a signpost?

Can this be that, or
Would subject object?
How could I be you?
Worse still, you be me?
Well, I know my place,
I'm not one to boast.

I am, like, content
To be just a guest,
Sometimes arriving
First and leaving last.
Not competitive,
Neither least nor most.

A figure of speech,
An Ambassador,
If you please, beyond
Compare and contrast,
Bearing messages
For you dear, mein Host.



A Story about Language

In a way, every work of fiction is about language, at least to the extent that it applies language to the telling of a story.

However, China Mieville’s "Embassytown" is about the very nature of language and how it both separates and bonds people.

At its heart is a deep knowledge of linguistics (far greater than my superficial understanding).

However, Mieville’s special talent is to weave this knowledge into an exciting adventure story based on linguistic concerns.

It’s a fascinating novel in the way some of us might have been fascinated by Umberto Eco’s "The Name of the Rose" or Don DeLillo’s "The Names" (note the word "name" in both titles) or would have been fascinated if a decent writer had got their hands on the religious and historical themes behind "The Da Vinci Code" (not "name", but "code" this time).

If Tom Hanks can star in a film of an unfilmable novel like "Cloud Atlas", then surely he could help bankroll a film of this novel?

Now that I think of it, if that novel was an Atlas, then this one is a Thesaurus.

It’s about what we can learn about humanity from the differentiation, synonymity and antonymity underlying language.

The Language of Diplomacy

Embassytown is a diplomatic enclave in a City on another planet ruled by the Ariekei or Hosts.

There are human and other Ambassadors and Diplomatic Staff here and, as is the custom, they have to find ways to communicate with each other, despite language differences.

In the ordinary course of events, there could be disputes, and resolutions have to be developed, negotiated and agreed. It is the nuts and bolts of diplomacy that we mere mortals can only dream of.

"Ambassadors speak with empathic unity. That’s our job."

[I once dreamed of being a diplomat and took a university course designed to qualify me for entry, but they started taking diplomats hostage around this time and I lost some of my enthusiasm. Still, I socialized within a diplomatic community for several years.]

Language As She is a Spoke in the Wheel

To the extent that a common language (such as English) is not used, diplomacy must operate at the intersection of two or more languages. We have to observe and respect nuances and exercise caution so as not to offend our hosts with inadvertent connotations or discourtesy.

We are always on tenterhooks or tender hooks.

You can imagine that when two languages first encountered each other, a lot of work had to be done to identify commonalities.

Was the grammar similar? What words meant the same thing? What are your words for "dog" or "girl"? What are our words?

It Semed Like a Good Idea at the Time

This is where a knowledge of semiotics might help an understanding of the novel.

Let's use the word "dog" as an example.

The word is a "sign" or a "signifier", and it "signifies" what society knows to be a dog. The social understanding of the concept relies on convention.

But a "dog" could mean a whole lot of different types of dog, which are all within the convention. These "dogs" are all within the scope of the "signified".

The words are therefore signs or vessels that carry meaning that is influenced by society and convention.

If I say "dog", however, I might be thinking of my dog Charlie, who is small and white, while you might think of your dog, Wilbur, who is big and black.

Our language is flexible enough to accommodate this personalisation of the signified.



Ariekei Thought and Speech

Contrast this with how the Language of the Ariekei Hosts operates.

The word for them is a funnel or a "referent" to the original thought.

This thought occurs within the mind of a Host.

Host-on-Host communication is therefore, presumably, much closer to unadorned or unmediated thoughts communicating through funnels.

If a Host "said" dog, its thought might actually be small, white Charlie dog, and the funnel or referent would ensure that another Host saw and understood small, white Charlie dog, consistently with the thought.

The meaning or signification of the word wouldn't be [as] social or conventional. It would be more specific to the "speaker" or "thinker".

Indeed, it’s arguable that there is only "referral" and no "signification" at all.

We leapfrog the social and conventional, and go straight from thought to thought.

Hence, the Hosts' "speech is thought".

What Lies Beneath a Language

This linguistic process lies beneath the Ariekei fascination with similes and, ultimately, with lies.

The transparency of their thought dictates total sincerity, therefore an inability to lie.

"This" must mean "this" and "this" only (not "that" or "more than this").

A simile requires one thing to mean or imply another.

A simile therefore requires social convention to imply meaning into the words of a speaker that a listener can infer.

The Ariekei just do not get and cannot replicate this process

Similarly, the Hosts can't think of a concept without Language.

As a result, they can't conceive of falsity.

To be confronted with a lie is an impossibility that is capable of giving them a brain explosion analogous to an addictive psychedelic "god-drug" experience.

Abstraction, Action and Interaction Behind the Language

The process also raises the issue of what they can imagine:

"What imaginaries any of them could conjure at all must be misty and trapped in their heads."

How can they think without words?

Are they just taking "snapshots" of the Real?

Can they entertain abstract thought?

Are they limited in what they can think and speak?

Is their world primarily one of action in the real world, not so much abstraction within the world of the mind?

Does the primacy of individual action limit collective or social interaction?

Can there only be dispute and coercion without cooperation?

Language Channels Into Sects and Cults

This is pretty much the back story of the novel.

The front story is intimately concerned with these ideas, and to say more would risk thematic, if not plot, spoilers.

Suffice it to say that a lot happens at the intersection of the two languages.

And it involves interaction, misunderstanding, dispute, negotiation and more.

At a macropolitical level, there is a sense in which language is shown to be an agent or vehicle of control.

How we think limits our potential and our aspirations.

The restraint on thought breeds obsession, which is channeled through religious and political sects and cults.

It is difficult to achieve informed unity and community:

"Those rebels must be a fractured community, without speech, if they were a community at all. Language, for the Ariekei, was truth: without it, what were they? An unsociety of psychopaths."

Freedom and vibrancy require change, and the novel is a dynamic exploration of the change that can occur at the interface.

Woman as Simile

Just as linguistics and political philosophy inform "Embassytown", consistent with China Mieville’s earlier novels, there is an explicit promotion of and support for the active role of women in social and political life.

The narrator is a woman, Avice, who describes herself as a "floaker", a more dynamic version of a modern-day "slacker" who embodies "the life-technique of aggregated skill, luck, laziness and chutzpah that we call floaking."

In the eyes of the Ariekei, she is their principal simile:

"The girl who was hurt in darkness and ate what was given to her."

Yet, despite the technical linguistic interests of her sometime husband Scile, Avice is the true social and emotional vehicle for the communication and rapport-building between the disparate groups and the progress of the narrative.

She is effectively both communicator and problem-solver, not to mention a pretty adept flirt.

Notwithstanding her lack of overt ambition, she would make a pretty good diplomat, if not one necessarily obedient to the powers that be.

Ultimately, what appeals to me so much about China Mieville is his ability to juggle sophisticated intellectual themes, genre demands, convincing worlds, interesting characters and well-paced adventure action.

While the themes of the novel are within my core literary and cultural interests, I admired his skill at bringing the project together with such aplomb.

I was always conscious that there was a puppeteer making this entertainment happen, but he has an uncanny knack of doing it in such a way that you don’t notice him or the strings.

I’d like to call Mieville a "floaker" of some sort, but as Avice’s lover, Bren, says of her at the end of the novel:

"You’ve never floaked in your life."




Genesis (A Very Old Woman's Tale)
(Thanks to Spanish Dancer and Weaver)



In the beginning was god. There was just it, and it was alone. Well, it had to be because it was everything.

God was a genius, but there is no point in being a god-like genius, unless there is company who appreciates it.

So god made woman, to reduce its workload. It intended woman to be the origin of everything else in the universe, which had formerly been god.

Woman would take what had been god and turn it into something else.

The presence of woman was required to make a difference.

So woman differentiated between things.

Having made things, she decided to invent language and words, so that she could give everything a name and put everything in its place.

Woman rejoiced once this was all done, but it was not enough. She needed a challenge. She thought about it for a few days and nights, at which point she decided to make man.

She was feeling reckless. Her intention was to make something almost her equal, but not quite, with whom she could flirt, after which she could birth and care for a child.

Upon the arrival of man, woman looked at him and could not determine whether her project had been a success.

Woman decided not to make it too easy for man, so she played hard to get.

Eventually, man worked out that the way to get woman’s attention was to call her a goddess and worship the very ground she walked on, at which point both woman and man lost interest in god, and it retired hurt.

While woman was birthing, man also lost interest in woman, and never really worshipped her the way that he had beforehand.

Having espied his face in a pond, man liked what he had seen, and decided to revive and re-make god in his own image.

He then made a church with other men and excluded woman from any secret god business.

By this time, woman had realised that when man said she was like a goddess, it was only a simile and he did not mean that she was the real thing, even though a simile is a kind of metaphor.

Many years later, woman made a man called China Mieville for her own entertainment.

China is cute, sensitive, strong, intelligent, talented and has tattoos. He knows what a simile is, but he also knows how to treat a woman as a goddess.

Man is still trying to work out why woman is reading so much genre fiction.

China Mieville continues to write, while man ponders his predicament.

description



SOUNDTRACK

Roxy Music - "More Than This"



Lyrics (Bryan Ferry):

I could feel at the time
There was no way of knowing
Fallen leaves in the night
Who can say where they´re blowing
As free as the wind
Hopefully learning
Why the sea on the tide
Has no way of turning
More than this - there is nothing
More than this - tell me one thing
More than this - there is nothing
It was fun for a while
There was no way of knowing
Like a dream in the night
Who can say where we´re going
No care in the world
Maybe I´m learning
Why the sea on the tide
Has no way of turning
More than this - there is nothing
More than this - tell me one thing
More than this - there is nothing.
44 likes ·  âˆ� flag

Sign into Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ to see if any of your friends have read Embassytown.
Sign In »

Reading Progress

March 5, 2013 – Shelved
March 5, 2013 – Shelved as: mieville
March 7, 2013 – Started Reading
March 9, 2013 –
page 49
12.1% "I am really enjoying not just the neologisms and the subject matter of language, but the quality of Mieville's language and writing itself. I have come across many beautiful sentences so far."
March 10, 2013 –
page 52
12.84% "EdGar and I had always enjoyed an exaggerated flirtation."
March 10, 2013 –
page 53
13.09% "What 'ware they had would be pirated, and for weeks the localnet would be twittering with exotic new algoritms."
March 10, 2013 –
page 58
14.32% "palimpsests"
March 10, 2013 –
page 66
16.3% "idents and doppels"
March 10, 2013 –
page 68
16.79% "She's spent a good deal of time in the out, and now she offers cosmopolitan expertise and an invaluable traveller's eye...I liked Wyatt, and his little power plays. You might say we tended to twinkle at each other."
March 10, 2013 –
page 75
18.52% "My early days back in Embassytown, with savings and an outsider, immerser chic. I swaggered.. I was welcome back in delight by those who'd known me..."
March 10, 2013 –
page 77
19.01% "People were kind to Scile and fascinated by him. He was fascinated back...Out status wasn't a secret. Nonex marriages like ours were known of but rare in Embassytown, which made us a titillation."
March 10, 2013 –
page 78
19.26% "Homosex was a little bit illegal...except for Ambassadors.

'How quaint,' he said

'Oh yes, it's just darling.'

'So do they know you were once married to a woman?'

'I've been to the out, my love...I can do anything I bloody want.'"
March 10, 2013 –
page 82
20.25% "He took my hand. 'Compatibility everywhere but between sheets.'

'Who said I wanted to do it between sheets?' I said. It was a joke, not a seduction."
March 10, 2013 –
page 86
21.23% "CalVin were tall, grey-skinned men, a little older than me, with a certain playfulness, and the charming arrogance of the best Ambassadors."
March 10, 2013 –
page 99
24.44% "They're saying: 'This? This is the one?'"
March 11, 2013 –
page 107
26.42% "I got a bit time-confused when Laurel and Hardy, Merlo and Rattlesnake, Sancho Panza and Don Quixote got name-checked."
March 11, 2013 –
page 113
27.9% "[They] thought me a useful figure of speech.

IG: To say nothing of the Cyberpunk-tuation."
March 11, 2013 –
page 115
28.4% "You speak Language. I am it...These were my months of simile fame.

IG: Next Avice will be chased around by the paragrapharazzi."
March 11, 2013 –
page 118
29.14% "They surely knew relations were bad between Scile and me, and perhaps even why. I doubt they were sleeping with him."
March 11, 2013 –
page 121
29.88% "I was deploying my best fuck-you immerser swagger."
March 11, 2013 –
page 126
31.11% "...first a lover, then an ex..."
March 11, 2013 –
page 130
32.1% "One moment of cack-handedness, Captain Cook offends the bloody locals, one slip of the tongue or misuse of sacred cutlery, and bang, he's on the grill."
March 11, 2013 –
page 136
33.58% "I thought they were supposed to be radicals."
March 11, 2013 –
page 137
33.83% "It was a slow catastrophe."
March 13, 2013 –
page 144
35.56% "The Church of God Pharotekton

Beehive's name was surl/tesh acher.

In The Cravat, conversations between the Hosts iluminated disagreements.. They had camps, constituted by theories and arcane politics...Some rated our merits: we called them the critics."
March 13, 2013 –
page 144
35.56% "The man who swims with the fishes is simple.

The girl who ate what was given to her is like more things.

Surl Tesh-echer, Spanish Dancer, Longjohn - Champion liars, "the Professors""
March 13, 2013 –
page 146
36.05% "STE stretched the logic of analogy.

They think it's being disrespectful when it says they are...

The birds are like the girl who ate what she was given...

are/like"
March 13, 2013 –
page 146
36.05%
March 13, 2013 –
page 148
36.54% "[Scile] and I were not nearly so close as we'd been at the time of our first festival..."
March 13, 2013 –
page 148
36.54% "A Host, a lie-athlete, a Professor: Before the humans came we didn't speak so much of things...Before the humans came we didn't speak so much...Before the humans came we didn't speak...


long quiet, and then a convulsion, a riot.
Lying by progressive omission

Go slow or collapse, in order to lie"
March 13, 2013 –
page 150
37.04% "Unbacked by signifieds, the lies of Language were just noises to their own liar. Biology's lazy: if mouths speak truth, why should ears discriminate between it and its opposite? When what was spoken was, definitionally, what was? And by this hole in adaptation, though or because they were not built to say them, the Hosts could understand lies."
March 13, 2013 –
page 161
39.75% "After a couple of days my husband came back to our rooms and we had the fight that had been simmering for a long time."
March 13, 2013 –
page 162
40.0% "...it's no surprise some of them would want to meet a simile. You help them think. Someone with reverence for Language would love that....But who'd want to lie? A punk, is who. There are fans and there are liars. And STE and its friends are both."
March 13, 2013 –
page 162
40.0% "I do what I always do, I'm like the Terre who swims with fishes. I'm not unlike that Terre. I'm very like it...I'm not water. I'm not water. I'm water.

It didn't have the usual precise and nuanced exactness.

It's training itself into untruth. It's using these weird constructions so it can say something true, the interrupt itself, to lie."
March 13, 2013 –
page 162
40.0% "I do what I always do, I'm like the Terre who swims with fishes. I'm not unlike that Terre. I'm very like it...I'm not water. I'm not water. I'm water.

It didn't have the usual precise and nuanced exactness.

It's training itself into untruth. It's using these weird constructions so it can say something true, the interrupt itself, to lie."
March 13, 2013 –
page 163
40.25% "It's trying to go from 'I'm like the rock' to 'I am the rock'.

See? Same comparative term, but different. Not a comparison anymore.

A simile is true because you say so. It's a persuasion: this is like that. That's not enough for it anymore. Similes aren't enough. It wants to make you a kind of lie. To change everything...It wants to usher in evil."
March 13, 2013 –
page 173
42.72% "the new philosophy"
March 13, 2013 –
page 174
42.96% "Licence Party: a pun on Lies and Sense..."
March 13, 2013 –
page 181
44.69% "Not true! Not true!

184 sentenced to Death by Human.

careful juridical moment

185 commitment, dissent, change, catastrophe

[Scile] worked as an apparatchik, but I wondered if he really was a prophet."
March 13, 2013 –
page 187
46.17% "CM displays greater authorial control than the exuberance of his earlier works"
March 13, 2013 –
page 198
48.89% "'It is', said Bren, 'the end of the world.'"
March 13, 2013 –
page 200
49.38% "'Conspire?' Ed and Gar laughed. 'They won't even talk to each other.'

Ez and Ra...looked at each other with very different emotions, those two unalike men. They whispered. They spoke Language together, and brought the Hosts to rapture."
March 13, 2013 –
page 208
51.36% "The city twitched. It was infected...Addiction had gone into the houses, which poor mindless things shook in endless withdrawal."
March 14, 2013 –
page 235
58.02% "We had only a few recordings of EzRa.

237 EzRa's voice. Where is it?"
March 14, 2013 –
page 256
63.21% "I stayed that night with him, for the second time.

264 Scile's letter"
March 14, 2013 –
page 277
68.4% "What theology that would have been , a god self-worshipping, a drug addicted to itself.

279 We're not training a new Ambassador, we're distilling a drug. We have to replicate every ingredient we know about. We need the Turn to hate the Cut. A voice tearing itself apart."
March 14, 2013 –
page 281
69.38% "A fraternity of those who's once loved me, or still did?"
March 14, 2013 –
page 285
70.37% "I imagined the pulses of the implants, hot-synching them, pumping out into the universe the lie that they were the same.

287 A few in control of their addiction would rule over those not, compradors at our behest; a narcocracy of language. We'd have to be careful pushers of our product.

292 We restored them to mindfulness and gave them delight...

295 They listened, and they were transported.

297 OgMa god"
March 16, 2013 –
page 300
74.07% "What they can do is lie. Not that any of them's anything like as virtuoso as S-T-L was. It was...a harbinger. On the edge of something.

Your husband was right. To stop it. In his terms he was right. It was changing everything. This lot have had to carry on without it since. It's slow. They do what they can."
March 16, 2013 –
page 301
74.32% "Spanish Dancer: There was a girl who was hurt in darkness and ate what was given her...We now when we take what is given in god-drug's voice, we are like the girl who was hurt in darkness and ate what was given her.

302 What other things in this world are like the girl who was hurt in darkness and ate what was given her?"
March 16, 2013 –
page 301
74.32% "S-L-T was more than just the best lioar, you know. It was sort of a vanguard. It was never just about performing lies. Why would they be so interested in you, if that was all, Avice? How do lying and similes intersect?"
March 16, 2013 –
page 304
75.06% "It's not good that we are this. We wish to be other than this. We're like the girl who was hurt in darkness and ate what was given her because we imbibe what is given to us by EzCal...We want instead to be like the girl who was hurt in darkness and ate what was given her...in that we want to be..."
March 16, 2013 –
page 304
75.06% "Now, it's worse. We didn't expect this. Itw as a bad thing when we were made intoxicated and helpless by the god-drug's worwords, lost ourselves, but now it's different and worse. Now when the god-drug speaks we obey.

We want to decide what to hear, how to live, what to say, what to speak, how to mean, what to obey. We want Language to put to our use."
March 16, 2013 –
page 304
75.06% "They resented their new druggy craving and their newer inability to disobey...it dovetailed with what they had always wanted to achieve: their longtime striving for lies, to make Language mean what they wanted.

IG: Language controls us, but who controls language?

305 I'd always stressed how incommensurable Terre and Ariekene thinking were."
March 16, 2013 –
page 305
75.31% "We are like the girl who was hurt in the dark and ate what was given to her because we...because like her we are...we are hurt..."
March 16, 2013 –
page 312
77.04% "Whether it was design, buffoonery or luck that underlay our new politics, I was not safe."
March 16, 2013 –
page 322
79.51% "They couldn't have a unified intent but we knew they did, and what it was, and that we were it.


323 Someone named the attackers according to an ancient language. It meant...deaf...; particularly because, fast bastardised or misunderstood, the term became the 'Surd' and then misprisioned into the 'Absurd'. Hosts, coming to kill us for sins we'd committed, if at all, without intent."
March 16, 2013 –
page 324
80.0% "You see they're all in prime instar? They're not protecting the old or looking after the young.

The young might soon enough be grateful to them. Even uncared for, a few in each Arieken litter must survive, and when they emerged to their adult form, woke into Language, they would find a city purged of us. Without god-drug."
March 16, 2013 –
page 325
80.25% "The Absurd would martyr themseleves to that future. They'd put themsleves beyond the reach of any compromise or agreement.

IG: beyond negotiation or diplomacy, religious obsession

I tried to help them find new ways to speak to me.

IG: 327 importance of harmony, fraternity

silence

IG: Scilence???

329 calls that sounded like halloos, like calls to gods..."
March 16, 2013 –
page 330
81.48% "The solipsism of those that had torn out their own fanwings seemed impenetrable.

331 The Languageless...watched their interlocutors, ignoring overtures and focusing on actions. I saw sudden shared moments of attention, responding to idiosyncracies of k-s's motion invisible to me...They got each other's attention with spread-out eye-tines, made motions to indicate things to notice."
March 16, 2013 –
page 331
81.73% "How do you say 'that' in language? Like that one. I pointed...Thatness.

There's nothing.

IG: differentiation

333 We saw the two Ariekei our rulers held moving not quite like two things unconnected, but according to something ele; not a plan but a knowledge of each other; a community.

IG: a bond

335 no-person's lands, settlements, tribalism

337 I wanted to save the world"
March 16, 2013 –
page 338
83.46% "I never, in Embassytown, the immer or the out, had the constitution for intrigue. Floaking, I'd hoped, was a way around it. But politics finds you.

339 IG: the Absurd represent the "Abyss"

Existentialism"
March 16, 2013 –
page 339
83.7% "Often s-t-l had wordplayed, eroding qualiying clauses until what was left was a sudden surprising lie. But that method, however, well done, was a sideshow, s-l-t's theoretical focus had been on me...us similes made of Terre...as key to some more fundamental and enabling not-truth...Through a dissembling made of omitted clauses it laid out its manifesto."
March 16, 2013 –
page 339
83.7% "Before the humans came we didn't speak; so we will, can, must speak through them. It made that falsity a true aspiration. s-l-t, insisting on a certain might-be, changed what was. It had learnt to lie to insist on a truth.

340 Tell me what I'm like, and we'll get to what I am.

IG: from I'm "like" to I "am"

341 What am I like? What's like me?"
March 16, 2013 –
page 341
84.2% "Those who aren't trying to change anything are like the girl, eating not what she wanted but what was given to her.

IG: control through imposed language

It made me two different, contradictory things. Compared them to me.

342 You're on the run. You're in hiding. You're one of us.

344 They've got new minds. And they're using them to kill us."
March 16, 2013 –
page 344
84.94% "I'd seen them gesticulate..The Absurd had invented pointing. With the point they'd conceived a that...That that was the key. From it had followed other soundless words...That. That? No, not that: that>

Each word of Language meant just what it meant. Polysemy or ambiguity were impossible and with them most tropes that made other languages languages at all."
March 16, 2013 –
page 344
84.94% "...But thatness faces every way: it's flexible because it's empty, a universal equivalent. That always means "and not that other", too.

In their lonely silent way, the Absurd had made a semiotic revolution, and a new langauge...this new crude thing of flailing fingers and murderous stamping was closer by far to what we spoke, was at last cousin-tongue to those of sentients across the immer."
March 16, 2013 –
page 345
85.19% "We could never learn to speak Langauge...We only ever pretended. Instead the Absurd have learnt to speak like us. [they] want to lie. That means thinking the world differently. Not refrring: signifying. I thought that was impossible...But every time they point, they signify."
March 16, 2013 –
page 345
85.19% "Similes start...transgressions. Because we can refer to anything. Even though in Language, everything's literal. Everything is what it is, but still, I can be like the dead and the living and the satrs and a desk and fish and anything. s-l-t knew that was Language straining to...bust out of itself. To signify...Similes are a way out. A route from reference to signifying. Just a route, though."
March 16, 2013 –
page 345
85.19% "If similes do their job well enough, they turn into something else. We tell the truth best by becoming lies. Not paradoxes...these weren't paradoxes, they weren't nonsense. I don't want to be a simile anymore...I want to be a metaphor.."
March 16, 2013 –
page 351
86.67% "You're trying to change things...You want change like the girl who ate what was given her. So you're like me.

You're like that girl who ate. You are the girl who ate. You're like the girl. You are the girl. And so are the others, who aren't like you.

We showed them how their own arguments came close to making liars of them.

IG: Fantastic Voyage through language"
March 16, 2013 –
page 359
88.64% "I need them to understand that you're two people because I need them to understand that I'm one. That these bloody squawks I make are language. That I'm talking to them.

361 You've driven them mad.

Good...We're insane, to them: we tell the truth with lies."
March 16, 2013 –
page 359
88.64% "You are the girl who ate. I'm Spanish Dancer. I'm like you and I am you. I have markings. I'm a Spanish dancer. I'm like you, waiting for change. The Spanish Dancer is the girl who was hurt in darkness.

I'm like the liquid-dripping man, I am him..."
March 16, 2013 –
page 362
89.38% "With the boisterous astonishment of revelation they pressed the similes by which I'd named them on until they were lies, telling a truth they'd never been able to before. They spoke metaphors.

They were signifying now - there, elision, slippage between word and referent, with which they could play. They had room to think new conceptions."
March 16, 2013 –
page 363
89.63% "We changed Language...There's nothing to...intoxicate them. There only ever had been because it was impossible, a single split, thinkingness of the world: embedded contradiction. If language, thought and world were separated, as they just had been, there was no succulence, no titillating impossible. No mystery. Where Language had been there was only language: signifying sound, to do things with and to.

IG: no drug"
March 16, 2013 –
page 365
90.12% "In the beginning was each word of Language, sound isomorphic with some Real: not a thought, not really, only self-expressed worldness, speaking itself through the Ariekei. Language had always been redundant: it had only ever been the world. Now the Ariekei were learning to speak, and to think, and it hurt."
March 16, 2013 –
page 366
90.37% "Language was never possible. We never spoke in one voice.

370 He shook his head. Formally, he said, “Language is the continuation of coercion by other means.�

“Bullshit. It’s cooperation.�

Both theories explained what had happened plausibly."
March 16, 2013 –
page 382
94.32% "Surrounded by semiosis...

"
March 16, 2013 –
page 393
97.04% "Spanish Dancer's speech:

see comments below..."
March 16, 2013 –
page 399
98.52% "Each meeting there are successes: Ariekei staggering out of Language, into language and semes.

They still can’t speak to me, only to Ambassadors. They only understand a dying Language. Now we have the drugs, the voices, to keep them alive, and no more gods."
March 16, 2013 –
page 401
99.01% "It’s two cities now—one of the addicts, one of all the others—that intersect politely. The Absurd and the New have much more in common than either do with the oratees. Hearing’s nothing: the Absurd and the New think the same.

402 THE NEW ARIEKEI were astounded to learn that Terre have more than one language. I uploaded French. “I, je. I am, je suis,� I said."
March 16, 2013 –
page 405
100.0% "I’ve been studying navigation and immerology, techniques that I, the floaker, had always avoided. “You’ve never floaked in your life,� Bren told me, brusquely, when I said that to him."
March 16, 2013 – Shelved as: read-2013
March 16, 2013 – Shelved as: reviews
March 16, 2013 – Shelved as: reviews-5-stars
March 17, 2013 – Finished Reading

Comments Showing 1-33 of 33 (33 new)

dateDown arrow    newest »

Arie I look forward to seeing your thoughts on this - I found it utterly fascinating and so strange


message 2: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye Arielle wrote: "I look forward to seeing your thoughts on this - I found it utterly fascinating and so strange"

Thanks, Arielle. I'm with you. I'll finish reading and reviewing it this weekend. This proem bullied its way onto the page during my walk this morning.

As an aside, I love the fact that the linguistic concerns are so abstract, yet CM has built a really strong story around them.

It just amazes me that he started this story with a blank screen. It just seems so perfectly conceived and executed.

I've been trying to think of analogies with other authors as I read: Umberto Eco and JG Ballard.

There is a sense in which CM takes a point in time, in the future, and builds a world that is totally convincing. You can imagine that, if you were in this time and place, this is exactly how it would be.

It's so authentic, it's almost documentary.

That's how much I'm prepared to believe CM.


message 3: by Paul (new)

Paul Bryant last time I vote for one of your creations like this it did not work out well for me; therefore please confirm this is not any kind of vicious parody of any person living, dead or soon to be dead, and all appearances to the contrary mean you need glasses and are entirely co-incidental. then i will vote.


message 4: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye I'd wait for the review anyway.


message 5: by Richard (new)

Richard Love the title of your proem.


message 6: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye Richard wrote: "Love the title of your proem."

Haha. I was thinking of you when I included "impunity".


message 7: by Kyle (new) - added it

Kyle Nice! I still haven't read anything by Mièville yet, but it seems I need to get to it. It certainly seems like my cup of tea.


message 8: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye Kyle wrote: "Nice! I still haven't read anything by Mièville yet, but it seems I need to get to it. It certainly seems like my cup of tea."

Thanks, Kyle. This would go well with Baudolino.


message 9: by Kyle (new) - added it

Kyle Ian wrote: "Kyle wrote: "Nice! I still haven't read anything by Mièville yet, but it seems I need to get to it. It certainly seems like my cup of tea."

Thanks, Kyle. This would go well with Baudolino."


Oh? ^.^ Well, in that case I'll have to give it an even higher priority. :) Thanks Ian!


Linda Robinson Roxy Music. Excellent. I like the history of goddess/church/Mieville even better than the book. But I don't remember the book altogether. The beauty of short term memory short circuits is enjoying what you've already enjoyed all over again.


message 11: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye Linda wrote: "Roxy Music. Excellent. I like the history of goddess/church/Mieville even better than the book. But I don't remember the book altogether. The beauty of short term memory short circuits is enjoying ..."

I loved your review. It was like you immediately recognised the book as the classic we know it will become.

More Than This was the soundtrack of my 1982 trip to London. It still sounds great.


message 12: by Noran (new) - added it

Noran Miss Pumkin Excellent review. Thanks for the Roxy at the end-traveled down memory lane with a former lover-he played Roxy for me. He showered me with many worlds new to me at the time. I need to visit some of them again soon...."Love is like picking roses in the rain..." Not Roxy, but that line is one of many he quoted to me. Thanks for the lovely time I am having in my brain right now!


message 13: by Ian (last edited Mar 16, 2013 11:46PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye Wonderful comment, Noran, my pleasure. Mind you ex-lovers tend to remind you of noses more than roses.


message 14: by Lynne (last edited Mar 17, 2013 03:07AM) (new) - added it

Lynne King What an absolutely stunning review Ian. I'm really impressed.

I especially liked: "It Seemed Like a Good Idea at the Time

This is where a knowledge of semiotics might help an understanding of the novel.

Let's use the word "dog" as an example.

The word is a "sign" or a "signifier", and it "signifies" what society knows to be a dog. The social understanding of the concept relies on convention.

But a "dog" could mean a whole lot of different types of dog, which are all within the convention. These "dogs" are all within the scope of the "signified".

The words are therefore signs or vessels that carry meaning that is influenced by society and convention.

If I say "dog", however, I might be thinking of my dog Charlie, who is small and white, while you might think of your dog, Wilbur, who is big and black.

Our language is flexible enough to accommodate this personalisation of the signified."

It just seemed so appropriate to situate Charlie in the review. I have a dog too, and yes she "is big and black".

Brilliant.


message 15: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye Thanks, Lynne. I forgot your dog's name, so I hope it doesn't mind me calling it Wilbur.


message 16: by Lynne (new) - added it

Lynne King Amazing Ian and her name is Chloé. We had another "big and black dog" before, a Labrador like Chloé, who was called Jasper. I actually like the name Wilbur though.

Still your review is something else. I'm "slightly" jealous and that is something that is not normally part of my nature.


Derek Another brilliant review, Ian. And you can never go wrong with Roxy Music.


Michael Thrilled by your review. I learned a lot. Amazing coincidence that the song "Spanish Dancer" came on the radio (Emmy Lou version) within seconds of your reference to it. God playing tricks, or just like God playing tricks?

Call your wonderful creation a review would be a metaphor, based on it looking like a review. And while you are like a dog to your god, I am sure he sees you as a god. His pose in your bed looks like love, though for him I bet breakfast food it both love and thought fused in his mind.

Just joking. I keep seeing Mieville's works as an allegories for aspects of human nature, here for language and communication. But in an interview with the ebook version of The City and The City, he says he hates allegory for a uselessly indirect way of portraying reality calling for a one-for-one reduction of the text.

I’m always much happier talking in terms of metaphor, because it seems that metaphor is intrinsically more unstable. A metaphor fractures and kicks off more metaphors, which kick off more metaphors, and so on. ... But the point is, those riffs don’t reduce.

So you are in line with him in treating his metaphors like jazz riffs and going your "meta" way on the own instrument of your mind, more with skill and chutzpah than luck and laziness in the floaking.


Cecily I love the range of your review, and the variety of styles you use. The fact you've picked out and expanded on aspects that I'd barely considered makes it all the better from my point of view. Thanks.

But do you seriously want Tom Hanks to bankroll a film adaptation?!
More to the point, do you think Mieville would?


message 20: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye Lynne wrote: "Amazing Ian and her name is Chloé. We had another "big and black dog" before, a Labrador like Chloé, who was called Jasper. I actually like the name Wilbur though.

Still your review is something e..."


Thanks, Lynne. No need to be jealous. We're on the same relay team, and I've now passed the baton on to you.


Derek Michael wrote: "But in an interview with the ebook version of The City and The City, he says he hates allegory for a uselessly indirect way of portraying reality calling for a one-for-one reduction of the text."

Tolkien famously hated allegory, too, and criticized Lewis for it, even though they were great friends. I believe Tolkien's arguments boil down to the same thing - though I would argue that Miéville is far more adept at making his writing work on more than one level.


Derek Cecily wrote: "But do you seriously want Tom Hanks to bankroll a film adaptation?!
More to the point, do you think Mieville would? "


I assume your query is more to the point of even doing a film adaptation, rather than Hanks being involved in it. To which I say, I'm always thrilled to see somebody try to make a movie of a book I loved - even if they totally mangle it! If anybody bankrolls it, Hanks seems fine to me :)

I do think CM would go for it - he's said that he wants to write in every genre, so I expect he'd hold out to do the script...


message 23: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye Part of his appeal for me is that he uses subtlety, when we know he or someone else could have used a sledgehammer.


message 24: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye I think the character of Scile needs something Hankish.


Cecily Hmm. Maybe the distracting ubiquity of Hanks in Cloud Atlas has coloured my judgement.


message 26: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye I don't think Tom Hanks gets enough credit. I think of him as more James Stewart than Carey Grant.


Lit Bug I've never read a review as brilliantly original as the work itself - you should probably read all of Mieville and publish your reviews as well in book-form - this review is just as entertaining as CM, and like him, it doesn't forget to make its point simultaneously. Honestly, now I find my own review even more insufficient....

I loved Cloud Atlas (movie, haven't read the book), and I am wishing hard Embassytown will be made into one as well!


message 28: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye Thanks, Lit Bug. Perhaps you will understand what it means to lose your best friend over "Embassytown", "Cloud Atlas" and "The Left Hand of Darkness".


BlackOxford An outstanding review. Your extrapolation to womanhood is outrageously spot on. Thank you.


message 30: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye Michael wrote: "An outstanding review. Your extrapolation to womanhood is outrageously spot on. Thank you."

Thanks, Michael. Mieville inspires you to contemplate the outrageous!


Gabrielle I have to re-read this one :)


message 32: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye Gabrielle wrote: "I have to re-read this one :)"

Hope you get to review it, Gabrielle!


Gabrielle Ian wrote: "Gabrielle wrote: "I have to re-read this one :)"

Hope you get to review it, Gabrielle!"


I will :) Mieville is one of my faves, so it will probably be a review fueled by fangirling...


back to top