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s.penkevich's Reviews > Giovanni’s Room

Giovanni’s Room by James Baldwin
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it was amazing
bookshelves: classics, lgbtq, society, paris, queer

[N]ot many people have ever died of love. But multitudes have perished, and are perishing every hour - and in the oddest places! - for the lack of it.

Sometimes a novel comes along that completely overpowers you. It sends your heart soaring to great heights on wings of perfect prose and then plummeting towards destruction on the rocks below. It crushes you and then rebuilds you from the wreckage then sends you out into the world, electrified by the experience, to contemplate the themes that are now humming through your entire body and mind. Giovanni’s Room is such a book. It’s perhaps too good. My emotions are just bleeding in a corner wanting to ask Baldwin “what the fuck is wrong with you, this was amazing.� For really thought, this second novel by James Baldwin, Giovanni’s Room adroitly addresses love, guilt, and our inner battles with ourselves over the two through a story and impeccable writing style that will have the reader exhausted from feeling all the feelings and thankful for it. It comes alive in the streets and bars of Paris as David, an American expatriate living in Paris (not unlike Baldwin himself at the time), struggles to accept himself and his feelings for Giovanni, nestling us into the titular room where they hide away from the world much like David is trying to hide his sexual identity. We experience how people who feel cornered often react in destructive ways. A powerhouse of a short novel that takes a sharp aim at the constricting social expectations of gender and sexuality while also exploring shame, expatriatism and the elusiveness of freedom, Baldwin’s Giovanni’s Room feels perfect in all its design and execution.

He made me think of home—perhaps home is not a place but simply an irrevocable condition.

Feeling distraught by the US and its prevalent racism, James Baldwin left for Paris in 1948 where he hoped to be able to see himself outside of the context of American prejudice. �Paris is, according to its legend,� Baldwin wrote in his 1954 essay A Question of Identity , �the city where everyone loses his head, and his morals, lives through at least one histoire d’amour, ceases, quite, to arrive anywhere on time, and thumbs his nose at the Puritans—the city, in brief, where all become drunken on the fine old air of freedom.� It was in Paris he wrote his first novel, Go Tell It on the Mountain in 1953 and then, later, Giovanni’s Room in 1956, the latter featuring an American expatriate in Paris that allowed him to discuss many of his thoughts about the two countries juxtaposed by travel. While Baldwin would argue it was far from autobiographical, Room was in part inspired by a real man Baldwin had met which he discusses in a 1980 interview:
We all met in a bar, there was a blond French guy sitting at a table, he bought us drinks. And, two or three days later, I saw his face in the headlines of a Paris paper. He had been arrested and was later guillotined . . . I saw him in the headlines, which reminded me that I was already working on him without knowing it.

What he would work on became a perfect little novel, though his US publisher, Knopf, was not interested in it because they wanted him to write of the Black experience. Baldwin had done so quite successfully in his previous book but with Room felt he could not address this as well as themes on homosexuality together. �The sexual-moral light was a hard thing to deal with. I could not handle both propositions in the same book,� he admitted, �there was no room for it.� In , Baldwin says Knopf told him publishing a queer novel would alienate his audience and �will ruin your career,� stating they would not even publish it �as a favour to you.� So �I told them, ‘Fuck you�,� he says, and Giovanni’s Room was instead published under Dial Press.

We are all lucky for it, as this is a gorgeous book and it is a shame to think it almost never happened. Especially with how strikingly gorgeous the writing is, navigating the emotional currents with such poetic finesse that we, the reader, find ourselves totally at it’s mercy, gleeful and grateful to be caught in the tumultuous undertow as Baldwin sweeps us out to the sea of destruction with these characters. His dialog is pitch perfect and his atmosphere is so encompassing and vibrant we are there with David shivering in shame through the streets or awash in boozy, conflicted confidence in the bars. Baldwin handles words with the best of them.

I stared at absurd Paris, which was as cluttered now, under the scalding sun, as the landscape of my heart.

The novel almost feels like something from Ernest Hemingway at the outset, and perhaps this is what makes the subversion of the traditional concepts of masculinity play out even more effectively. David is living in Paris spending time with Hella, a girl he �thought she would be fun to have fun with,� and drinks his time away with friends while she is gone to Spain to consider his marriage proposal—something that seems more going through the motions of expectations than a heartfelt desire for marriage. The idea of an expatriate in Paris has been a frequently romanticized theme in US literature, and through the characters we get a taste of the idea �you don’t have a home until you leave it and then, when you have left it, you never can go back.� This is true of Giovanni as well, who has left Italy after a personal tragedy and also uses travel as a means of escaping who one was to discover who they will become under a new geographical context. However, we see how �nothing is more unbearable, once one has it, than freedom,� and the characters find themselves feeling dislocated and unmoored more than anything, perhaps running to their own destruction in search of having anything to grasp.

Perhaps everybody has a garden of Eden, I don't know; but they have scarcely seen their garden before they see the flaming sword. Then, perhaps, life only offers the choice of remembering the garden or forgetting it.

The Americans have no sense of doom, none whatever,� Baldwin reflects. �They do not recognize doom when they see it,� and right from the start we are keenly aware everything is careening towards imminent doom . The story is framed on the final day of Giovanni’s life before he faces the guillotine (the guillotine was last used in 1977 and then France outlawed capital punishment in 1981) and mostly told reflecting on the story of the time David and Giovanni spent together until Hella returns and everyone must face-up for their actions. There is a tone of dread permeating every facet of the novel, even worming its way into the nooks and crannies of desire so that we feel nearly suffocated by its imminence.
The beast which Giovanni had awakened in me would never go to sleep again; but one day I would not be with Giovanni any more. And would I then, like all the others, find myself turning and following all kinds of boys down God knows what dark avenues, into what dark places? With this fearful intimation there opened in me hatred for Giovanni which was as powerful as my love and which was nourished by the same roots.

This suffocation seems to impart the social forces that impose the shame and dread, largely because David struggles with a sense of identity that is outside the socially enforced expectations of gender and sexuality. In his childhood he hears arguments between between his widower father and Aunt Ellen, with his Aunt chastizing his drunkenness and womanizing as setting a bad example while his father expresses his desires for David to be a �true man� and �when I say a man, Ellen, I don’t mean a Sunday school teacher.� The expectations of what is masculinity haunt him, causing his early gay experiences to be a mark of shame and self-hatred in him.

I couldn't be free until I was attached—no, committed—to someone.

There are some very misogynistic moments in the novel—be advised—though Baldwin seems fairly aware of them as such and the comments by both David and Giovanni seems a reflection of the social conditioning they are struggling within. Not that this excuses their comments or behaviors. Though we also see how the gender expectations are even more oppressive for women, such as Hella’s discussion on how it is a �humiliating necessity� that women are disregarded unless she is attached to a man, �to be at the mercy of some gross, unshaven strange before you can begin to be yourself.� This doubles into the theme on how when chasing a sense of freedom, you often find yourself more constrained or oppressed.

I was guilty and irritated and full of love and pain. I wanted to kick him and I wanted to take him in my arms

The expectations of heteronormativity cause David great internal suffering and he can never fully give himself to Giovanni. We see this play out in David’s symbolic impressions of Giovanni’s room, seeing it as both a haven for love but, due to his shame and disgust with himself, begins to despise the room. His desires come chased with loathing and diffidence which is a destructive force that wounds not only the one who swallows it down but all those around them as well. As if they are bystanders to the blast. It becomes a betrayal, not only to the self, but to love in general.
You want to leave Giovanni because he makes you stink. You want to despise Giovanni because he is not afraid of the stink of love. You want to kill him in the name of all your lying moralities. And you--you are immoral. You are, by far, the most immoral man I have met in all my life. Look, look what you have done to me. Do you think you could have done this if I did not love you? Is this what you should do to love?

If one is caught up trying to play the role of who society thinks they should be, they can never be who they truly are and the dissonance between the hidden self and the public self brings only trauma. This becomes more intensely felt as one slips away from youth where playacting is more easily digestible. �Confusion is a luxury which only the very, very young can possibly afford and you are not that young anymore,� David is warned. Warnings from older men appear all throughout the novel, with a particularly chilling moment in the bar when a man appears like a haggard and horrid seer from myths to broadcast David’s doom.

Self-deception becomes a major theme of the novel in this way. �People who believe that they are strong-willed and the masters of their destiny can only continue to believe this by becoming specialists in self-deception,� Baldwin writes and we witness how David’s acknowledgement of his own self-deception but unwillingness to fully depart from it becomes his own undoing. Similarly, the frustrations of others that become seemingly hopeless and unbearable destroys them in turn.
People who remember court madness through pain, the pain of the perpetually recurring death of their innocence; people who forget court another kind of madness, the madness of the denial of pain and the hatred of innocence; and the world is mostly divided between madmen who remember and madmen who forget. Heroes are rare.

But it is also why we all must fight for a more welcoming and empathetic society that allows space for such things. The thing about social expectations is we are all complicit in them by perpetuating them instead of dismantling them and Giovanni’s Room is a call to confront this in life. We’ve come a long way, but there is still a lot to be done.

If you cannot love me, I will die. Before you came I wanted to die, I have told you many times. It is cruel to have made me want to live only to make my death more bloody.

I could rant forever about the power and beauty of Giovanni’s Room and Baldwin as an author in general. This is an emotional ride that will shake you to the core while dazzling you with pure poetic intensity. This is a novel full of incredible social and interpersonal criticisms that bruise you but make you better for it and I cannot wait to read literally everything Baldwin wrote. Giovanni’s Room is not only a queer masterpiece but an all around amazing and essential novel.

5/5

No matter how it seems now, I must confess: I loved him. I do not think that I will ever love anyone like that again.
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Reading Progress

August 31, 2023 – Started Reading
August 31, 2023 – Shelved
August 31, 2023 – Shelved as: classics
August 31, 2023 – Shelved as: lgbtq
August 31, 2023 – Shelved as: society
August 31, 2023 – Shelved as: paris
August 31, 2023 – Shelved as: queer
August 31, 2023 – Finished Reading

Comments Showing 1-50 of 86 (86 new)


Ilse A blistering ode to this marvel of a book, just having finished this too I enjoyed reading your enlightening and perceptive reflections on Baldwin's novel tremendously, Steve. No wonder this is regarded as classic now.


David Great review, and I love the extra research you did! This was my first Baldwin book. Now I own 11 (multi TBR). I cringe when I see a review say "too sad, 3-stars". They've missed "it". This is a litmus test type of book for GR friendship. I had a roommate in college that was about 5'9" and would constantly score 40 points of our Fraternity's 50 points in a basketball game by driving straight to the basket. No head-fakes. No stutter-step. Even when defense realized they should simply follow him in, they still couldn't shut him down. That is Baldwin - straight at you. No fakes. Concise yet all-telling. Thanks for another excellent review.


message 3: by Lea (new) - added it

Lea Perfect review, Steve. Just came from you commenting on my Baldwin review to see you posted one for Giovanni's Room. I could not be more thrilled. You nailed the description of the profundity of his writing.


s.penkevich Ilse wrote: "A blistering ode to this marvel of a book, just having finished this too I enjoyed reading your enlightening and perceptive reflections on Baldwin's novel tremendously, Steve. No wonder this is reg..."

Thank you so much! Oh I’m glad you just read this as well—I can’t believe I took so long to finally check this out but I’m glad I did. A classic for sure. His writing is so wonderful. I really loved Another Country by him as well, it’s incredible how he only got better as he went.


s.penkevich David wrote: "Great review, and I love the extra research you did! This was my first Baldwin book. Now I own 11 (multi TBR). I cringe when I see a review say "too sad, 3-stars". They've missed "it". This is a li..."

Thank you so much! This was just now my second from him (loved Another Country) but it was definitely a book that now I’m going to have to read everything he has written haha already picked up Go Tell it On the Mountain to start soon. Ooo that is a perfect metaphor for Baldwin. He really does just storm right at you and there’s nothing you can do but be overpowered haha. Just amazing writing.
And true! Which is funny because like…who got through page one and thought “maybe this will end happily� haha I sometimes think that about Dazai’s No Longer Human when if being too dark is used as a reason to rate it lower—like, sure everything is subjective but it makes me think of Royal Tenebaums when they ask Luke Wilson if his suicide letter was dark and he says “it’s a suicide note of course it’s dark�. But like, fair I guess, I just tend to enjoy sadder books.


s.penkevich Lea wrote: "Perfect review, Steve. Just came from you commenting on my Baldwin review to see you posted one for Giovanni's Room. I could not be more thrilled. You nailed the description of the profundity of hi..."

Thank you so much! Yea, your review of Sonny’s Blues was amazing, I’ve been meaning to read that ever since and probably will soon now (and Mountain, which I just snagged yesterday). He’s incredible, just perfect writing that encompasses so much and hits so many deep emotions.


message 7: by Lesley R M (new)

Lesley R M Gorgeous review S. !! I think it’s time I read this story as it keeps popping up for me! Thanks for your share!! 💕


s.penkevich Lesley wrote: "Gorgeous review S. !! I think it’s time I read this story as it keeps popping up for me! Thanks for your share!! 💕"

Thank you so much! Ooo yes please do, I hope you enjoy! I bought this years ago and am kicking myself for not having read it sooner haha though it did a good enough job on its own of kicking me in the teeth at the end!


Mirnes Alispahić Great review, S. As for James Baldwin, he was a unique soul. The world has lost a lot when he died, but he left us a legacy that will last.


Julio Pino A strange story for ya, S.: I was visiting a private college in Maine for a job interview in History and housed in the guest room located on the top floor of the tallest campus building. The previous occupant had left behind almost all of Baldwin's fictional work abd critical studies of the writer. I decided to read GIOVANNI'S ROOM, as I had already read most of Baldwin's non-fiction. I wish I could be as enthusiastic about this novel as you are, and it certainly has its place in American literature, but I found the characters of little interest and the ending all too predictable. Maybe it's me. Years before, while living in Brazil, I gave JUST ABOVE MY HEAD a try and could not get past the first 100 pages.


Colin Baldwin Oh boy, S. This is an amazing review. Well done. Loved revisiting the power of this novel through your words.
Cheers from CB


s.penkevich Mirnes wrote: "Great review, S. As for James Baldwin, he was a unique soul. The world has lost a lot when he died, but he left us a legacy that will last."

Thank you so much! Oh for sure, there's really nobody like him, what a just outstanding writer and thinker. Been picking through his big collected essays and finding I find his fiction and non-fiction both equally 5-star fantastic.


s.penkevich Julio wrote: "A strange story for ya, S.: I was visiting a private college in Maine for a job interview in History and housed in the guest room located on the top floor of the tallest campus building. The previo..."

Ooo yes, I mean you have to read Giovanni's Room if you find it in a guest room, just seems the right thing to do! Ah yea, that's fair, it does just sort of seem pulled straight to the destructive ending you expect. I did really enjoy Another Country (maybe a tad more?) so if you ever try another that might be worth a go. I really need to read more of his non-fiction. I've been slowly picking my way through a collected essays book, been finding his discussions on film to be really amazing. He has some really critical thoughts on The Defiant Ones, namely that theres no way he believes Poitier would have given up his chance to freedom to go back and hold Tony Curtis.


Candi Ooh, I adore this review of a beloved book, S.!! You've so eloquently expressed what makes this book special, and I am happy to relive it again through your analysis :)


s.penkevich Colin wrote: "Oh boy, S. This is an amazing review. Well done. Loved revisiting the power of this novel through your words.
Cheers from CB"


Thank you so much! Glad you enjoyed this as well, this one really blew me away. The writing just grabbed me for sure!


s.penkevich Candi wrote: "Ooh, I adore this review of a beloved book, S.!! You've so eloquently expressed what makes this book special, and I am happy to relive it again through your analysis :)"

Thank you so much! This book is amazing, right? So glad you love it as well, your review is quite excellent. I think I’m about to go on a big Baldwin kick.


Fatma I am so happy you finally read it 🤩 I knew you would love it, and I LOVE your review (no surprise there 😊)
You NAILED IT when you said "there is a tone of dread permeating every facet of the novel, even worming its way into the nooks and crannies of desire so that we feel nearly suffocated by its imminence."
Wow! You said what I couldn't find the words for. THANK YOU 🌹
This review should be put as a forward for that book 👌


message 18: by Ava (new) - rated it 4 stars

Ava Cairns What a marvelous and informative review, that brought me right back to reading this book! I love it!! 💜


s.penkevich Fatma wrote: "I am so happy you finally read it 🤩 I knew you would love it, and I LOVE your review (no surprise there 😊)
You NAILED IT when you said "there is a tone of dread permeating every facet of the novel,..."


Thank you, it was SO good! I'm just kicking myself for waiting this long now haha. Worth the wait though, this just destroyed me in the best way. And thank you so much, that means a lot! That dread though, whew, it just keeps you flipping pages feeling all the anxiety haha.


Julio Pino s.penkevich wrote: "Julio wrote: "A strange story for ya, S.: I was visiting a private college in Maine for a job interview in History and housed in the guest room located on the top floor of the tallest campus buildi..."
Dear S.: Yes, I remember that funny line from I AM NOT YOUR NEGRO: "I watched THE DEFIANT ONES in a theater in Harlem and when the moment came for Sidney Poitier to decide whether to jump on the train or extend his hand to Tony Curtis the audience roared 'Jump on the train, you fool!'".


Amina Oh dear, I don't think any words of my appreciation will do justice to the brilliance of this review. The care to detail and finesse of analyzing and reflection of it, alone. So very happy it captivated you so! Outstanding review, S.! 🧡


s.penkevich Ava wrote: "What a marvelous and informative review, that brought me right back to reading this book! I love it!! 💜"

Thank you so much! It was your review that finally convinced me to read this year so double thank you!


s.penkevich Julio wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "Julio wrote: "A strange story for ya, S.: I was visiting a private college in Maine for a job interview in History and housed in the guest room located on the top floor of the t..."

Haha yea! Nobody is jumping off that train. Been quite enjoying his essays, sat at the bar with them last night after work for awhile. Half the time it feels like he could be writing about right now.


s.penkevich Amina wrote: "Oh dear, I don't think any words of my appreciation will do justice to the brilliance of this review. The care to detail and finesse of analyzing and reflection of it, alone. So very happy it capti..."

Aw well thank you so much! This one blew me away, I just HAD to rant about it for awhile haha :)


Imogen Terry-Lancaster ❤️‍�


message 26: by Julio (last edited Sep 03, 2023 08:11AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Julio Pino s.penkevich wrote: "Julio wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "Julio wrote: "A strange story for ya, S.: I was visiting a private college in Maine for a job interview in History and housed in the guest room located on the top ..."
Yes. S.: Although in the Sixties Baldwin took a lot of flack from more militant Blacks who accused him of being "an assimilationist". His endorsement of Styron's THE CONFESSIONS OF NAT TURNER earned him much wrath. Baldwin began to fade away from American Literature after IF BEALE STREET COULD TALK, and has made a remarkable posthumous comeback in reputation.


L Ann Wonderful review, s. This story was so sad, and I had a hard time getting through it. Every time I think about Giovanni I want to cry. Dispite his past, he was such a bright and positive person, I wish he'd never met David. It's so easy to perpetuate societal norms because a lot of times, we're not even aware we're doing it. It takes a book like this to jar you and make you really think about what society is doing to people like David and Giovanni. I'm looking forward to reading more from Baldwin. His writing really affected me more than I thought it would. The quotes you chose to include are very powerful and brought right back into that frustrated headspace. I really enjoyed this review, thank you.


s.penkevich Imogen wrote: "❤️‍�"

:)


s.penkevich Julio wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "Julio wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "Julio wrote: "A strange story for ya, S.: I was visiting a private college in Maine for a job interview in History and housed in the guest room..."

Oh interesting it started to wane after that because it seems like the recent revival of Baldwin kind of sprung from the film adaptation of Beale Street as well.


s.penkevich L Ann wrote: "Wonderful review, s. This story was so sad, and I had a hard time getting through it. Every time I think about Giovanni I want to cry. Dispite his past, he was such a bright and positive person, I ..."

Thank you so much! YEA, reading this makes you really have to confront exactly how devastating society is to people who can’t be who they are in public, and how it makes them hurt themselves and others under the pressures. Agreed, Giovanni deserved so much better and it’s so sad he thought David could be his escape from it all. Just pure tragedy straight through, but so gorgeously delivered by Baldwin. Thanks again, and glad this book had such an impact on you as well. This makes me want to read all the Baldwin


Julio Pino s.penkevich wrote: "Julio wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "Julio wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "Julio wrote: "A strange story for ya, S.: I was visiting a private college in Maine for a job interview in History and housed in ..."
And the discovery of the manuscript I AM NOT YOU NEGRO, which, speaking of his reputation, Baldwin could not get published in the Seventies.


message 32: by Karen (new)

Karen You had me with your first 2 sentences, Steve. I love when books do that to us! Powerful review. Thank you.


s.penkevich Julio wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "Julio wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "Julio wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "Julio wrote: "A strange story for ya, S.: I was visiting a private college in Maine for a job interview in Hi..."

Ah true. I still need to catch that documentary, I think we have that at the library


s.penkevich Karen wrote: "You had me with your first 2 sentences, Steve. I love when books do that to us! Powerful review. Thank you."

The best kind of books! This one definitely hits hard. And thank you so much :)


message 35: by Chantel (new)

Chantel This was such an enthralling review to read. I really appreciated the background you included, it make the entire experience of reading your thoughts so much more entrancing. I really really loved this review!!


s.penkevich Chantel wrote: "This was such an enthralling review to read. I really appreciated the background you included, it make the entire experience of reading your thoughts so much more entrancing. I really really loved ..."

Wow thank you so much, that means a lot especially coming from someone who writes such incredible reviews. Ha Yea, I got a bit obsessed while reading this one (about one sitting in I immediately bought his collected essays haha oops) but I often think about how so much of what I love about books id read in school was that we dove into so many biographical elements and stuff that made the experience more well rounded for me. Thanks again!


Southern Lady Reads Love the quote you shared! Great review S!


message 38: by hope (new) - added it

hope h. what a beautiful review! a worthy tribute to an integral part of queer literary history - excellent work and i can't wait to read this one soon :)


message 39: by Julio (last edited Sep 05, 2023 07:54AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Julio Pino s.penkevich wrote: "Julio wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "Julio wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "Julio wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "Julio wrote: "A strange story for ya, S.: I was visiting a private college in Maine for a job i..."
Here's a sample, S.: "Black people hated GUESS WHO'S COMING TO DINNER? What they saw up on that screen was an emasculated Sydney Poitier ".


s.penkevich Southern Lady Reads wrote: "Love the quote you shared! Great review S!"

Thank you so much! I think I underlined at least one sentence per page, his writing is SO beautiful


s.penkevich hope wrote: "what a beautiful review! a worthy tribute to an integral part of queer literary history - excellent work and i can't wait to read this one soon :)"

Thank you! It’s SO good, I hope you love it! It’s rough haha I love a story told from the perspective of the worst person in the situation.


s.penkevich Julio wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "Julio wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "Julio wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "Julio wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "Julio wrote: "A strange story for ya, S.: I was visiting a private college ..."

Ooo yea he talks about that in The Devil Finds Work as well “a black person can make nothing of this film..and, when one tries to guess what white people make of it, a certain chill goes down the spine.�


message 43: by hope (new) - added it

hope h. s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "what a beautiful review! a worthy tribute to an integral part of queer literary history - excellent work and i can't wait to read this one soon :)"

Thank you! It’s SO good, I hope you..."


hahaha i know you do! i relate, the worst person's perspective is usually the most interesting lol - and i am sure i will love it :) i've read some of his shorter essays and they were masterful so i'm sure his fiction will be excellent as well


s.penkevich hope wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "what a beautiful review! a worthy tribute to an integral part of queer literary history - excellent work and i can't wait to read this one soon :)"

Thank you! It’s..."


Haha TRUE, it’s always a style I tend to enjoy like no thanks actually I don’t need any characters I think are decent people haha though I think part of what Baldwin does so well is he still makes you empathize strongly which is just good writing.
Yea! I’ve been going through his essays all weekend and they are so good and seem like half of them could be about right now too


Julio Pino s.penkevich wrote: "Julio wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "Julio wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "Julio wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "Julio wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "Julio wrote: "A strange story for ya, S.: I was visiting a pr..."
I came across a copy of THE DEVIL FINDS WORK at Crown Books (remember them?) back in the Eighties. From what I gather Spike Lee bought the rights to Baldwin's screenplay on Malcolm, ONE DAY WHEN I WAS LOST, but more to remove a competitor. Very little was used in his film.


s.penkevich Julio wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "Julio wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "Julio wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "Julio wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "Julio wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "Julio wrote: "A strange story for ya, S.:..."

Ha oh wow I totally forgot about them! Them and Waldenbooks. RIP.
Shame, that has to be disheartening to have your work purchased only to find out its to make sure nobody else gets to use it. Though on the other hand, David Foster Wallace sold the rights to Infinite Jest to a friend of his under the promise he never filmed it so he just throws tiny references to it into episodes of shows he does (Parks and Recs was full of them).


message 47: by hope (new) - added it

hope h. s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "what a beautiful review! a worthy tribute to an integral part of queer literary history - excellent work and i can't wait to read this one soon :)"

Th..."


YES exactly!! good writers can make you empathize with terrible people - part of the importance of stories is digging into objectively awful peoples' motivations and reminding you that they are human too and making you think about that so you can dig into your own actions and motivations (thinking of that cormac mccarthy quote that's like "he was a child of god just like yourself").

i'm just constantly annoyed by the whole morality culture that is really present right now that's like, if the author writes about something shitty that means they condone it. obviously there are some freaks out there but like half the time it's like if you just stopped and thought for like two minutes about why they wrote what they did you wouldn't have this problem lol?? i swear they expect authors to be like "and then he called his girlfriend a bitch, and then he stopped and thought about how misogynistic and inappropriate that was and how no morally decent person would degrade their partner like that" like COME ON

but anyways yes props to baldwin for being such an excellent writer and yeah isn't it wild how many of those older works are so relevant today? i feel the same way reading audre lorde


s.penkevich hope wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "what a beautiful review! a worthy tribute to an integral part of queer literary history - excellent work and i can't wait to read t..."

Ooo yea that McCarthy quote is spot on. Agreed, and I think literature is more descriptive than prescriptive? If all the characters were unblemished by actions it would just feel false? I still think Brandon Taylor said it all best:
To make moral art, moral fiction, is to get out of the way. To make moral art is to admit one’s humble place in the order of things. I think moral fiction is less about signaling to the reader that you voted for the right people or that you are able to listen to people who would have you destroyed. Moral fiction does not signal. That is propaganda. That is social work. Not that these are unimportant things, but they are not art. And they are not moral.

I see that especially in like…books that have “villains� where there is criticism about the author representing something horrible and it’s like but yea that’s so you know that character is a bad person?

Yea she’s amazing too! I feel like poetry has a special way of staying relevant by being able to capture vibes unstuck from time.


Julio Pino s.penkevich wrote: "Julio wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "Julio wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "Julio wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "Julio wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "Julio wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "Julio wrote: "A strange sto..."
That is Drole, S.: You sell the rights to your novel but only in bits and pieces. Crown, you may recall, ended in a family feud between father and son over profit shares. They had tons of outlets in Southern California but very little of what I enjoy history and biography. Whatever became of Pickwick Books, the competitor to Walden's?


message 50: by hope (new) - added it

hope h. s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "what a beautiful review! a worthy tribute to an integral part of queer literary history - excellent work and i can't w..."

i still need to read child of god too haha but that one is INTENSE so i'm holding off. and yesss exactly!! that brandon taylor quote is perfect, i love that so much - "to admit one's humble place in the order of things", that's perfect. and yeahhh i see that a lot too, like if the character didn't do anything bad then there would be no conflict? like what are they even saying haha


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