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Ulysses by James Joyce
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it was amazing
bookshelves: books-about-hamlet, 2014, books-about-odysseus, rth-lifetime, top-100, dick-lit

You shouldn't read this. Almost no one should read this. People get mad when I say that. (Some people. Almost no one actually.) They think I'm dissing the book and I'm not, or at least not at that moment, although I don't particularly like it and I'm going to dis it soon. I'm not saying it's not a brilliant book though. If nothing else, it's definitely a brilliant book. I'm just saying almost no one should read it.

The reason is that it's the most difficult book in the canon: it's the K2 of literature. And should everyone go climbing K2, just because it's a very good mountain? No, almost no one should because they haven't trained for it and they're going to die. Almost no one should climb K2 and almost no one should read Ulysses. You haven't trained for it and it's going to kill you.

What it's going to do is it's going to annoy you to death. It's not like it's boring - it's not boring, really, except for episodes ten and fourteen - but it's annoying. It's 800 pages of trying to figure out what's happening. It's the most difficult book that we all agree is brilliant. Everyone knows about Ulysses. It's a taunt, a boogeyman, a trophy. Look, I read a lot of books myself, and I barely staggered through this and understood very little of it.

And given that almost no one should read it and almost everyone who has feels about it the same way they feel about the time they ate a fried spider on a dare, it's easy to find yourself reviewing not the book, but the fact that the book exists.

Because we have opinions about the fact of the book, right? Why must Joyce write an 800-page stream-of-consciousness masterpiece in which it's very hard to figure out what's going on and when you do figure it out it's probably farting? Why must people continue to call it a masterpiece? Is everyone just being assholes?

Is it rewarding? Yeah, sure, I guess so. You won't forget it, anyway. Leopold Bloom, in his pathetic everyman interior optimistic life, feels like no one else in literature. And the feel of the words themselves, their collisions into each other and their abrupt abdications, is entirely unique.

Will you like it? No, probably not. Some people do. Most people don't. I didn't, not really. I like having read it more than I liked reading it.

But Ulysses is a rare thing: it's a book that doesn't need to be liked. It's not even really about being "liked". It has something else in mind.

Virginia Woolf famously called Ulysses the work of "a queasy undergraduate scratching his pimples," but she also said of it, "If we want life itself, here surely we have it." It was a clear influence on Mrs. Dalloway, but she "invites the suspicion that she is awkwardly straining to rationalize an aversion that she cannot justify by logical means," and I bring this up in order to point out that a super smart lady feels the same way I do and therefore I'm right or at least not definitely wrong.

Because here's my problem with Ulysses: my problem is James Joyce. I don't like him. I don't like his style, I don't like his sense of humor, I don't like his kinks or his kidneys, and I really don't like his bear-on-a-tricycle tricks. There's a new gimmick for every chapter in here. One contains a parody of every style of literature Joyce knows, which isn't as much fun as it sounds. Another is written as the Rabelaisian answers to a series of 309 questions. I don't like it.

And that's okay, right? Authors are just people. You get to know them, not necessarily through their characters but through their books. Sometimes you don't like them. It's okay if you like James Joyce and I don't; people are like that. Joyce isn't the easiest guy to like compared to, say, Judy Blume, the most likable author I can think of...but you might.

(So Joyce is not Leopold Bloom. I'm not sure if he's Stephen Dedalus; to be honest, I didn't feel I got to know Dedalus very well. But the kinks and the farts...those are all Joyce, my friend, )

When Woolf called this "life itself", what she meant was that thing modernists were trying to create in the early 1900s (or trying to catch up to Tristram Shandy on, anyway): the interior process of living. Your inside voice, the unfiltered id. And Joyce has done it as well as anyone has; that's one of the reasons Bloom is so memorable. You know him on a level you don't know anyone else in literature, or really in life either; it's a level of direct access that you only otherwise get with weird dudes on the subway.

And one of the things about that level of access is that I think it necessarily comes with a certain amount of farting. I mean that I'm earthier inside my head than I generally let on. The weird sex stuff, the awareness of my body's prosaic functioning - this is, actually, how my brain is too. Woolf and I find Joyce's frankness distasteful; in fact, we find it shocking, which is a funny feeling for me. But it's true, so maybe its shock says more about us than Joyce.

Or, maybe turning into a lady and getting fisted is just super weird even for me and Virginia. We're all gross, but Joyce is gross in a specific way that's not mine, and we're back to I don't care for him.

One of the recurring themes of Ulysses is how poorly we know each other. Bloom spends the book trying desperately to explain who he thinks he is to everyone around him. And everyone, from Dedalus on to Gertie, the young lady whose upskirt he whacks off to in the park, disagrees with him about who he is. In fact Bloom isn't who he likes to think he is either; he's some combination of his and others' perceptions of him, and Joyce does a lovely job of showing us how that all works. And in the climactic almost-twist-ending we find out that (view spoiler)

So in his creation of a person whom we know, from every angle and from the inside all the way out, Joyce has done something that was entirely revolutionary at the time, which is still shocking today, and which to my knowledge has still not been matched. So. Five stars not for the book but for the fact of the book. Five stars for life itself, because we do want it, even if we don't always like it, and here - surely - we have it.
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Quotes Sasha Liked

James Joyce
“Let my country die for me.”
James Joyce, Ulysses
tags: war


Reading Progress

May 7, 2013 – Shelved as: books-about-hamlet
May 7, 2013 – Shelved
October 30, 2014 – Started Reading
November 5, 2014 –
62.0% "Ep. 13, Nausicaa: the one where a young lady allows Bloom to jerk off to an upskirt. Okay. Intelligible, at least. Ep. 14, Oxen of the Sun: the one where it sucks and doesn't make any sense; my least favorite chapter so far. Ep 15, Circe: the one that's like a play, hallucinatory, set in the red light district. Relatively fun so far.""
November 6, 2014 –
84.0% "Episode 16, Eumaeus, the one where Bloom and Dedalus hang out: boring, Just a big "eh", this whole chapter."
November 8, 2014 – Finished Reading
November 9, 2014 – Shelved as: 2014
November 9, 2014 – Shelved as: books-about-odysseus
January 2, 2015 – Shelved as: rth-lifetime
September 15, 2015 – Shelved as: top-100
August 4, 2018 – Shelved as: dick-lit

Comments Showing 1-50 of 70 (70 new)


message 1: by [deleted user] (new)

Good luck...


message 2: by [deleted user] (new)

'this again' more like 'best book ever' am i right


Sasha Aidan wrote: "'this again' more like 'best book ever' am i right"

noooooooooooooo

no but seriously, there's something about this book that just bugs me. It's show-offy, of course, but so are lots of books I love, so it's not that. It's purposefully obnoxious and literarier-than-thou, I don't think anyone denies that. It's not an inviting book, right? It doesn't want to make friends. Or is that just me?

It's certainly brilliant, but when I read Joyce it's like...like a weirdo on the internet who has amazing insight but is also sortof a troll. Like a beautiful girl whose hygiene is terrible.

Every time I read Joyce, I find myself trying to enjoy him in spite of him.


message 4: by [deleted user] (new)

It's not an inviting book, right? It doesn't want to make friends. Or is that just me?

to be honest i have the opposite experience with this book. like, i don't know everything joyce is doing, but whatever it is feels so inviting to me. maybe it's the humor? idk. there's definitely moments where it's not as sublime, but i read it for the first time this summer because i felt like it was something i should've read before college, & i really did come away thinking it was the best book ever. or at least my favorite.

but of course this:

Every time I read Joyce, I find myself trying to enjoy him in spite of him.

isn't really something we have control over, so! don't mind me. i do have vladimir nabokov on my side, though:

A divine work of art. Greatest masterpiece of 20th century prose. Towers above the rest of Joyce's writing. Noble originality, unique lucidity of thought and style . . . Love it for its lucidity and precision.

(i used the ellipsis to omit a part where he says something slightly negative about it haha take that nab)


message 5: by Mindy (new) - added it

Mindy These initial thoughts are not exactly inspiring me to give it a shot.


Sasha I was okay with Ep. 9 - that's the chapter where Bloom rants about Shakespeare for like 900 pages - because I understood what he was talking about, which was nice. Although I completely disagree. I think looking for biographical connections between Shakespeare and his plays is a fool's errand. You're going to end up babbling about second-best beds, which is a red herring, and you should just quit.


Sasha I'm having trouble seeing the point of Episode 10. It's just a bunch of unrelated vignettes featuring people I don't care about, right? There's a little more about Dedalus's family, but a lot of BS on either side of it.


Sasha Copied & pasted from the mighty Nathaniel:

From the 10/10/2014 ed. of the Times Literary Supplement pgs. 5 and 7

In review of the Kevin Birmingham's The Most Dangerous Book: The battle for James Joyce's Ulysses

"It was to avoid such prosecutions that the printers of 'The Egoist', the little magazine in which Joyce's "A Portrait of An Artist As a Young Man" first appeared, deleted the words 'fart' and 'bollocks' from the text and were fired for doing so by journal's Editor Harriet Weaver, despite the fact she did not know what either word meant. Thirteen other printers fearful of the prospect of hard labor, refused to print 'A Portrait' in it's entirety....A serialization of Ulysses in the States rewrote "He can kiss my royal Irish arse" as "He can kiss my royal Irish aunt".....Leonard and Virginia Woolf at the Hogarth Press, refused to publish [Ulysses], partly because of practical problems.....[Virginia Woolf] could find little in the work, but "a queasy undergraduate scratching his pimples". Impressed by T. S. Eliot's inability to stop raving about the novel, she was later to wonder in more emollient spirit whether Joyce was doing what she was doing, only better. The problem, she thought, was to answer that question involved knowing what she was doing, which she did not.


Sasha Awesome, Nathaniel - particularly that last sentence, which is just pure gold.

I just finished Mrs. Dalloway (not a coincidence), and I do see parallels between it and Ulysses. Interesting ones! On top of the usual modernist hallmarks (stream of consciousness, being hella confusing), they're both single-day odysseys that switch viewpoints as their two leads wander.

I ran across this terrific article about Woolf on Joyce. What comes across clearly is her ambivalence. She said lots of nasty things about him, but she also said, "If we want life itself, here surely we have it." And while writing Jacob's Room, the precursor to Dalloway, she said at one point that "I reflected how what I’m doing is probably being better done by Mr. Joyce."

The piece concludes that in her less positive comments about how Joyce is gross and boring, "Woolf invites the suspicion that she is awkwardly straining to rationalize an aversion that she cannot justify by logical means." And that''s sortof how I feel about him. I understand that the book is brilliant. Staggering when it came out, and still utterly original now, even though (as ) " English-language fiction since 1922 has been a series of footnotes to Joyce's masterpiece." But I don't like it. I don't! I don't! No one can make me!

And I think the problem is: Joyce is a genius, but I don't like him.


Sasha Episode 15: We're up to five fart jokes. (That's the point, right? To count fart jokes?)


message 11: by Jennifer (new)

Jennifer I find inspiration to consider reading this.


message 12: by Liz M (new) - added it

Liz M Bravo! Except you're wrong about Wandering Rocks being boring.


Sasha Liz M wrote: "Bravo! Except you're wrong about Wandering Rocks being boring."

I am? Why? Are you sure?


message 14: by [deleted user] (new)

good review. it was interesting to see you struggling to appreciate, if not enjoy, ulysses. sorry it wasn't your thing!


Casey Ulysses tends to make me feel uneasy. A masterpiece, but you always get the sense that Joyce is just a huge asshole and has written this to taunt you. But it's good so it's hard to figure out how to feel about it. I guess one interesting thing about it is that the reader can feel Joyce there, lurking behind the pages, probably laughing. I truly thought that it would be easier the second time around, but turns out it only becomes more opaque (even with all my annotations).


message 16: by Gill (new) - rated it 5 stars

Gill It's a good feeling to have finished it, isn't it? I enjoyed many parts of it, though (btw including Episode 10!)


message 17: by Zadignose (new) - added it

Zadignose The five-star thing surprised me, based on comments made elsewhere, and then the review surprised me, based on the five-star thing. Maybe this should be an unrated review, as you seem to still be working out your own ideas with regard to the work, or else you've got a lot of reservations and qualifications to append to why you love, love, love this book so much.

Not that I'm actually concerned with stars'n'stuff, just there's a discontinuity. Or...


Sasha Yeah, I know, Zad, I really shouldn't have any stars. And you're right that I started writing this review like a week ago, when I was halfway through, and my feelings are still evolving.

I don't know, man. I mean, the thing is that I definitely think it's brilliant.


message 19: by Juniper (new)

Juniper yeah, i am surprised on the rating too, based on your review. so what do your 5-stars represent? it's place on the canon? or your experience with it? because 'brilliant' doesn't alway mean 5-stars? (not trying to talk you out of your rating in any way...just curious about your process!!)


message 20: by Zadignose (new) - added it

Zadignose By the way, this is one of the two books that were prominent on my list to read this year that I didn't actually read. The other was Middlemarch. In theory I may still get to one of them, but anyway, soon. Then I can tackle the ultimate project: Rewriting Middlemarch in the style of Joyce, and rewriting Ulysses in the style of Eliot. (I'm not actually going to do that.)


message 21: by [deleted user] (new)

Then I can tackle the ultimate project: Rewriting Middlemarch in the style of Joyce, and rewriting Ulysses in the style of Eliot. (I'm not actually going to do that.)

these two sentences were a roller coaster of emotion


message 22: by Sasha (last edited Nov 10, 2014 05:30AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Sasha Jennifer wrote: "yeah, i am surprised on the rating too, based on your review. so what do your 5-stars represent?."

What they represent is that as I wrote this review, I realized that Ulysses hit me pretty hard. It affected me; it feels like nothing else I've read; I'm certain that it's a monumental achievement.

And I guess the confusion here is that Ulysses is a rare - hell, maybe unique! - book that feels (to me) like its entertainment value is almost wholly irrelevant. It's about something bigger and more important than that, and I hate saying shit like that but it's certainly okay for art to be like that sometimes. Ulysses achieves what it wants to achieve; it doesn't need to be liked to be effective.

Seems like what I need to do is find a way to restructure this review to get that point across. As you can probably imagine, this was a difficult one to write.

Zad, are you sure you're not going to do that? I really think you should. Middlemarch in the style of Ulysses would be the fun one, and I'm already imagining it.


message 23: by Juniper (new)

Juniper Alex wrote: "...it doesn't need to be liked to be effective..."

thanks, alex!! i can't even imagine writing a review for this one!! i liked yours a lot, but was very curious about the overall rating, your experience, and the difference between recognizing something's importance within the canon, apart from one's own experience with it. if that makes sense?


Sasha Some quotes I liked:

"You behold in me, Stephen said with grim displeasure, a horrible example of free thought."

"Usurper."

"History, Stephen said, is a nightmare from which I am trying to awake."

"That is God. Hooray! Ay! Whrrwhee!
--What? Mr Deasy asked.
--A shout in the street."

"Cold oils slid along his veins, chilling his blood: age crusting him with a salt cloak."

"He read on, seated calm above his own rising smell.:

"Well of course if we knew all the things."


An example of what I hate about Joyce:
A man spitting back on his plate halfmasticate gristle: no teeth to chewchewchew it."
I hate the portmanteau, I hate the purposeful grossness, and I hate the onomatopoeia, which is a thing Joyce likes too much.
And some more:
Moo. Poor trembling calves. Meh. Staggering bob. Bubble and squeak. Butchers' buckets wobble lights. Give us that brisket off the hook. Plup. Rawhead and bloody bones. Flayed glasseyed sheep hung from their haunches, sheepsnouts bloodypapered snivelling nosejam on sawdust."
The alliteration is too self-conscious, too.

"The supreme question about a work of art is out of how deep a life does it spring."


message 25: by Sasha (last edited Nov 18, 2014 07:50AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Sasha Stuff about Shakespeare:

"The world believes that Shakespeare made a mistake, he said, and got out of it as quickly and as best he could."
"Coleridge called him myriadminded."
(I agree with Coleridge! But not Joyce, who falls too deeply into biographical analysis of Shakespeare - a method that has never worked.)
"The note of banishment, banishment from the heart, banishment from home, sounds uninterruptedly from The Two Gentlemen of Verona onward till Prospero breaks his staff, buries it certain fathoms in the earth and drowns his book."
Good point, though.
"His unremitting intellect is the hornmad Iago ceaselessly willing that the moor in him shall suffer."
"Dumas fils (or is it Dumas pere?) is right. After God Shakespeare has created most."

"He himself had applied to the works of William Shakespeare more than once for the solution of difficult problems in imaginary or real life."

"Shakespeare is the happy hunting-ground of all minds that have lost their balance."


message 26: by Sasha (last edited Nov 18, 2014 08:01AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Sasha Not much has been said about Joyce's frequent use of terms like this; most commentary on race in Ulysses has focused on his inclusive attitude toward Jews. But here's a collection of quotes that made me deeply uncomfortable, and I'm not sure whether Joyce is just straight racist or if he's trying to say something else with this.

"From the hoardings Mr Eugene Startton grinned with thick niggerlips at Father Conmee."

"Curiosity like a nun or a negress or a girl with glasses."

"The dark one with the mop head and the nigger mouth."

"something like a nigger with a shock of hair on it Jesusjack the child is a black"

"Slumming. The exotic, you see. Negro servants too in livery if she had money. Othello black brute. Eugene Stratton. Even the bones and cornerman at the Livermore christies. Bohee brothers. Sweep for that matter.
(Tom and Sam Bohee, coloured coons in white duck suits, scarlet socks, upstarched Sambo chokers and large scarlet asters in their buttonholes leap out. Each has his banjo slung. Their paler smaller negroid hands jingle the twingtwang wires. Flashing white Kaffir eyes and tusks they rattle through a breakdown in clumsy clogs, twinging, singing, back to back, toe heel, heel toe, with smackfatclacking nigger lips.)



Sasha "America, I said, quietly, just like that. What is it? The sweepings of every country including our own. Isn't that true?"

"Couldn't loosen her farting strings"
(Fart joke #1 or 2)

One of your better descriptions of a beat down:
"Handed him the father and mother of a beating. See the little kipper not up to his navel and the big fellow swiping. God, he gave him one last puck in the wind. Queensbury rules and all, made him puke what he never ate."

"A nation? says Bloom. A nation is the same people living in the same place."

Note: good dog name: Garryowen.

Here's Bloom blowing a load:
"And then a rocket sprang and bang shot blind and O! then the Roman candle burst and it was like a sigh of O! and everyone cried O! O! in raptures and it gushed out of it a stream of rain gold hair threads"
...rain gold hair threads?

"Virgins go mad in the end I suppose."


message 28: by Sasha (last edited Nov 24, 2014 10:59AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Sasha "How can people aim guns at each other? Sometimes they go off."

"The stick fell in silted sand, stuck. Now if you were trying to do that for a week on end you couldn't. Chance. We'll never meet again. But it was lovely. Goodbye, dear. Thanks. Made me feel so young."

"Greater love than this, he said, no man hath that a man lay down his wife for his friend."
lol

"More bluggy drunkables?"

"Burst together from their mouths a volleyed fart."
(Fart joke #3?)

"He implored me to soil his letter in an unspeakable manner, to chastise him as he richly deserves, to bestride and ride him, to give him a most vicious horsewhipping."
(Note that this comes soon after a reference to Masoch's Venus in Furs, and I think I know which side of the bed Joyce lays on.)


message 29: by Sasha (last edited Nov 18, 2014 08:01AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Sasha "The new Bloomusalem. It is a colossal edifice, with crystal roof, built in the shape of a huge pork kidney."

"U.p.: up."
(What's with this?)

"(Many most attractive and enthusiastic women also commit suicide by stabbing, drowning, drinking prussic acid, aconite, arsenic, opening their veins, refusing food, casting themselves under steamrollers, from the top of Nelson's Pillar, into the great vat of Guiness's brewery, asphyxiating themselves by placing their heads in gas ovens, hanging themselves in stylish garters, leaping from windows of different storeys.)"

"Dr. Bloom is bisexually abnormal."

"BLOOM: O, I so want to be a mother."

"Yeats says, or I mean, Keats says..."
(Ha, glad I'm not the only one who occasionally does this)

"He uncorks himself behind: then, contorting his features, farts loudly.)
(Fart joke #4)

"(He bares his arm and plunges it elbowdeep in Bloom's vulva.) 'There's fine depth for you!'"

"I say: let my country die for me."

"Why did you leave your father's house?
-- To seek misfortune, was Stephen's answer."

"Every country, they say, our own distressful included, has the government it deserves."

"I suspect, Stephen interrupted, that Ireland must be important because it belongs to me."

"We can't change the country. Let us change the subject."

"He had not risked, he did not expect, he had not been disappointed, he was satisfied.
What satisfied him?
To have sustained no positive loss."


Sasha "As a philosopher he knew that at the termination of any allotted life only an infinitesimal part of any person's desires has been realised."

"It heals and soothes while you sleep, in case of trouble in breaking wind"
(fart joke #5)

"He kissed the plump mellow yellow smellow melons of her rump"
ugh

"yes he came somewhere Im sure by his appetite"

"you never know what freak theyd take alone with you"

Books Molly likes:
Moonstone, East Lynne, shadow of Ashlydyat, Mrs Henry Wood, Henry Dunbar, Lord Lytton Eugene Aram Molly

"give us room even to let a fart"
(fart joke #6)

"also his lovely young cock there so simply I wouldnt mind taking him in my mouth if nobody was looking as if it was asking you to suck it"
(Molly on, I think, some random dude)

"no wonder they treat us the way they do we are a dreadful lot of bitches"

"if he wants to kiss my bottom Ill drag open my drawers and bulge it right out in his face as large as life he can stick his tongue 7 miles up my hole as hes there my brown part then Ill tell him I want £1"


Sasha ps the total number of farts in the book is seven.


message 32: by Adam (new) - rated it 5 stars

Adam Holy shit, this is an incredible review. Even though I ended up liking it (or Joyce, as you put it) more than you did, I found myself literally nodding my head the whole time I was reading this. Thanks for that Woolf link, too--the only story I ever hear is that she refused to publish it. It's cool to see how she struggled with it like everyone else.


Sasha Hey Adam, thanks! Appreciate the kind words. And yeah, the competitive, strained admiration between Woolf and Joyce is worth a whole book. Fascinating stuff.


Fernando Grrreat review!


Sasha Thhhhhhhhhhhanks man!


message 36: by Christopher (new) - added it

Christopher Do you have a list of the most difficult books? It seems like something you would and should have.


Nocturnalux I thought Ulysses was something of a hurdle but I then I picked up Finnegans Wake. And then I knew what 'wtf' truly meant.


Sasha Christopher wrote: "Do you have a list of the most difficult books? It seems like something you would and should have."

It does, doesn't it. Um

Ulysses
Gravity's Rainbow
Middlemarch (b/c so boring for so many pages)
Infinite Jest
Sound & Fury
Magic Mountain

It has to be both difficult and long, right? Like, The Waves is super difficult but it's only 300 pages long. And it has to be famous, too, because otherwise who cares? It has to be something you feel you ought to read but it's gonna suck. Whaddya got? Let's collaborate on a meaningless list.

Nocturnalux wrote: "I thought Ulysses was something of a hurdle but I then I picked up Finnegans Wake. And then I knew what 'wtf' truly meant."

Yeah I read one page of that. NOPE


message 39: by Susanna - Censored by GoodReads (last edited Apr 05, 2018 07:22AM) (new)

Susanna - Censored by GoodReads Considering any Faulkner for your list?

ETA: Ah, The Sound & the Fury. Eyes slid over it.

I forget - have you read Absalom, Absalom?


Sasha Nope! But I'm going to. It's in the Tournament, right? Oh God, is it more of a pain in the ass than Sound & Fury was, because that book was a pain in the ass.


Nocturnalux Alex wrote: "Yeah I read one page of that. NOPE."

You made about as much progress as I ever did. Every now and then I'll pick up my copy (which I own courtesy of what I know see as a cruel professor who was so sure I would absolutely love it. I guess this is what passes for hazing in lit class) and give it a go. I never managed to pass the second page.

Maybe one day I'll reach page three.


message 42: by Christopher (new) - added it

Christopher Parallel Stories deserves to be on the list. (And even though it's not well known, it's super great, and I think it'll be a cult classic, at least.) Really long, pretty gross, pretty sad, jumps back and forth in time between tons of characters.

2666 deserves at least an honorable mention. Most of it is not difficult to read, but that middle section is just ridiculously brutal and wearing to read.

The Recognitions, put this right next to Gravity's Rainbow.

Interesting how all "difficult" books seem to be written by men (and mostly read by men, too.) I think it's a bit of a dick measuring contest.


message 43: by Christopher (new) - added it

Christopher Absalom, Absalom is the stupidest book I've ever given four stars. I hate that book.


Nocturnalux Christopher wrote: "Interesting how all "difficult" books seem to be written by men (and mostly read by men, too.) I think it's a bit of a dick measuring contest. "

That probably depends, one of my national literature's most difficult contemporary author is a woman. People like to cite Saramago as 'difficult' but Portuguese lit has Agustina Bessa-Luís who is much closer to the authors here mentioned in terms of being less than accessible.


message 45: by Christopher (last edited Apr 05, 2018 12:06PM) (new) - added it

Christopher Thanks! I've never even heard of her. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like she's been translated into English. I know there are some female authors who write really difficult stuff—I think Virgina Woolf is very hard to read, but the fact that her books were fairly short usually keeps her out of the usual conversations that include Joyce and Pynchon and those other guys. I've also heard a lot here on ŷ about Marguerite Young's Miss MacIntosh, My Darling, which is supposed to be a very long, difficult book.


message 46: by Susanna - Censored by GoodReads (last edited Apr 05, 2018 01:07PM) (new)

Susanna - Censored by GoodReads Alex wrote: "Nope! But I'm going to. It's in the Tournament, right? Oh God, is it more of a pain in the ass than Sound & Fury was, because that book was a pain in the ass."

Absalom Absalom may be the hardest book I've ever read, but it was wonderful.

ETA: When appealed to my mother's opinion was that they are difficult in different ways, but probably about the same level of difficulty.


Sasha Susanna - Censored by GoodReads wrote: "Absalom Absalom may be the hardest book I've ever read, but it was wonderful."

Oy vey.

Good additions to the list, yeah, 2666 wasn't easy. Bessa-Luis, wow, never even heard of her.


message 48: by Silvia (new)

Silvia Cachia Fabulous review. I loved it.


message 49: by Cutter (new)

Cutter Holmes It sounds intriguing. 😏


message 50: by Dani (new) - added it

Dani (The Pluviophile Writer) This is the most accurate review I have read on this novel. I am still trying to bust my way through it and you have expressed exactly how I feel about it.


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