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Fionnuala's Reviews > The Magic Mountain

The Magic Mountain by Thomas Mann
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Reviewed in December, 2013


I love when the themes of two books I happen to be reading overlap. And when those themes also reflect aspects of my own life experience, I feel a wonderful convergence, an exchange of awareness at an almost physical level as if the the space between the pages where the authors ideas are laid out and my reading of their pages has become porous and a continual flow happens between all three, an exchange not unlike the one that happens in the deepest tissues of the respiratory system when we breathe in and out.

In perhaps the most obvious parallel between the two books I've been reading and my own life, the hero of The Magic Mountain and the Narrator of Proust’s A la recherche du temps perdu, both suffer from respiration related diseases. Proust’s Narrator, an asthmatic like myself, spends portions of his life à l’horizontale, wrapped in the tissued softness of a curtained room, lest any noxious air disturb the normal rhythm of his breathing. Quite early in his stay at the Berghof sanitorium, Hans Castorp discovers that he may have a soft spot on his lung and this discovery removes him from the normal rhythms of life to live his own horizontal version of ‘lost time� in the hermetic world of The Magic Mountain.

The exchanges that take place between the two books might also be compared to those produced by the vibrating membrane of the acoustic chamber of a gramophone - since music plays such a big part in both works even as it does in my own life.
Certain pieces of music become significant in both books, and are used by their authors as a kind of recurring theme. Schubert’s Am Brunnen vor dem Tore, a song about the symbolic linden tree, emerges as a connector between Hans Castorp’s feelings and ideas, and as a significant object in the working out of his life and fate.
Mann also uses other pieces of music as metaphors for his hero’s existence: just as Radomes in the opera Aida sings Tu - in questa tomba when Aida comes to him in his underground prison, Castorp is ‘buried� in the tomb of the Berghof sanatorium, waiting to be joined by his love. But like Don José in Bizet’s Carmen, Castorp’s Russian ‘Carmen� is drawn away from him towards a more ‘robust� toreador. However, Castorp, although ein Sorgenkind des Lebens, one of life’s problem children, is never at a complete loss and, without any operatic drama, he subtly vanquishes the toreador.

Music is therefore a powerful trigger for change in Castorp’s life but, as is the case in Proust, it is only one of a series of cathartic mechanisms: a simple nosebleed propels Castorp back in time to a significant moment in his childhood; the experience of being lost in a snow storm on the mountain awakens new levels of consciousness within him; dreams play a role too, as do images, in particular the x-ray image of his own body which provides a eureka moment in terms of his self discovery, his ‘Bildung�.

Hans follows many avenues of study in his quest to understand himself, one of them being the lectures given every week in the sanatorium by Dr Krokowski on the subject of love as a force conducive to illness. Among the arcane topics covered by the doctor is The Arabian Nights: Tales from a Thousand and One Nights. This work was a favourite of Proust, and love as a force conducive to illness is itself an underlying theme in À la Recherche du Temps Perdu.
Dr Krokowkski also talks about plants in connection with love, in particular the morel mushroom. Proust chooses the name Morel for one of his characters, a character himself associated with the destructive power of love.
The study of plants becomes a preoccupation for Hans in his personal program for self cultivation. He is particularly interested in the family of flowers called ranunculacae, a compound flower, as I recall, an especially charming plant, bisexual... This is yet another similarity with Proust’s work since the metaphor of bisexual and self-fertilising plants is an important element in the Recherche.

There are other parallels too, 'love' meaning ‘being loved�, references to duels, the personification of death, death wearing a starched Spanish ruff..whereas life always wore a little, normal, modern collar.
Proust and Mann place themselves in the text from time to time, acknowledging the reader reading, At the beginning of May (for May arrived while we were talking about snowdrops) ..., the ‘we� being the author and the reader.
They both have very sharp observational skills as if they had taken a quick snapshot of a glance, a way of sitting or standing, a way of walking, and they can stretch description almost to the point of caricature as in the case of Dr Behrens or Mme Verdurin. The authors also make frequent diversions within their narratives but seem to finish up exactly where they planned in the end, with a discussion of ‘Time�.

Thomas Mann has some very interesting things to say about the element of ‘time� in narration, the very cornerstone of Proust’s work.
Narrative, however, has two kinds of time: first, its own real time, which like musical time defines its movement and presentation; and second, the time of its contents, which has a perspective quality that can vary widely, from a story in which the narrative’s imaginary time is almost, or indeed totally coincident with its musical time, to one in which it stretches out over light-years.
He can stretch a moment out of all proportion to real time: Their eyes met.. Claudia's napkin slips towards the floor - Hans Castorp half rises as if to pick it up it - but she retrieves it, scowls in annoyance at her own silly panic and turns away with a smile. That brief incident takes half a page to tell but at other times, Mann can condense years into a single sentence: There is not that much time left in any case, it's rushing by slapdash as it is, or if that's too noisy a way of putting it, it's whisking past hurry-scurry.
Because the weather on the Magic Mountain is unpredictible with snow in summer and sunshine in winter, robbing the year of its seasons, Hans Castorp marks the passage of time not by calendars or watches but simply by his visits to the barber or the frequency with which he clips his nails - and since death is a major theme, as it is also in Proust, Mann reminds the reader more than once that, In the end it is only the physical that remains, the nails and the hair.
Hans Castorp lives outside of time while on the Magic Mountain just as Proust’s Narrator moves outside of time, en dehors du temps in his search for le Temps Perdu.
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Reading Progress

August 11, 2013 – Started Reading
August 11, 2013 – Shelved
August 11, 2013 –
page 3
0.35% "It's going to take me a long time to read this: already, on the first page, I stopped to look at a map and see exactly how far it is from Hamburg to Davos-Platz, then to locate Swabia's sea, Lake Constance?, find Rorschach, ! , then Landquart, where I stood in the wind for a little before beginning the climb to Davos..."
August 11, 2013 –
page 20
2.34% "I want to hear the story of the American woman with the British naval officer fiancé who died in room thirty four, in Hans Castorp's 'just a deathbed, an ordinary deathbed'."
August 12, 2013 –
page 24
2.81% "Sorting stuff yesterday in advance of a house move, I came across a little engraved baptismal cup which we received when our youngest daughter was born. We had all forgotten about it so it was amazing to find it especially as I had just read the beautiful but sad passage about the Castorp family baptismal bowl. Mann seems very attached to symbols of family history. I'm reminded of the ledger they kept inBuddenbrooks"
August 19, 2013 –
page 117
13.7% "Settembrini suggested Hans should pack up and go home and I'm thinking, yes, Hans, go, save yourself while you can.
But then there would be no Magic Mountain and I'm enjoying spending time on the magic Mountain - it makes for a great 'rest cure' read!"
August 23, 2013 –
page 158
18.5%
September 28, 2013 –
page 279
32.67% ""And when morning drew near, he found it amusing to watch the objects in his room gradually grow visible, emerging from under a veil of grey, to see daylight kindle outside, sometimes only smoldering murkily, sometimes catching bright fire."
Interesting choice of words when viewed from our present perspective almost one hundred years after they were written."
October 3, 2013 –
page 314
36.77% "When did Hans Castorp become such a gifted conversationalist? I suddenly feel like I'm in a different novel with a different main character."
October 16, 2013 –
page 339
39.7% ""that dubious construct of moonshine and cobwebs that goes by the name of soul"
Yes, you are right, that is Settembrini's voice.."
October 29, 2013 –
page 400
46.84% "Hans is seven months on the mountain and has finally approached Claudia Chauchat - to ask her for a pencil just as he asked her lookalike, Pribislav Hippe, whom he also had a crush on, for a similar rotating pencil at school many years before? How great will be his achievements after seven years, I tell myself.
And in the meantime, I get to read amazing sentences like this: "They laughed so hard they almost burst.""
October 30, 2013 –
page 406
47.54% "Updates are like garden rakes.
They can punch you smack in the face.
No sooner had I commented ironically on Castorp's pathetic achievements and Mann's minimum writing style than there followed several pages of unprecedented bravery and action from Castorp and some wonderful writing from Mann.
I must watch out for garden rakes in future.
But that is the risk of updates: we write them blind."
November 2, 2013 –
page 4452
100% "It seems like we may get along if only we spend more time together.
And Settembrini does help: Oh, I'll have none of your fate! Human reason needs only to will more strongly than fate, and it is fate."
November 2, 2013 –
page 452
52.93% "It seems like we may get along if only we spend more time together.
And Settembrini does help: Oh, I'll have none of your fate! Human reason needs only to will more strongly than fate, and it is fate."
November 5, 2013 –
page 502
58.78% ""...Hans Castorp elucidated the fields of heaven for his uncle, or quasi cousin, tracing with words and gestures one twinkling constellation here, another there, and calling planets by name; his relative meanwhile, paid more attention to his relative than to the cosmos....Since when was he so well informed about what was up there, he asked Hans Castorp."
My very own thoughts about Hans for quite some time now...."
November 22, 2013 –
page 534
62.53% ""The sick person was just that, sick, both by nature and in his mode of experience. Illness battered its victim until they got along with one another;""
November 28, 2013 –
page 551
64.52% "This novel has become a play with the two main parts going to Settembrini and Naphta - Hans Castorp has only a minor role, and Herr Ferge gets an excited line or two whenever there is mention of whipping or torture..."
November 28, 2013 –
page 556
65.11% "Relief - the Operationes Spirituales completed, it's time to play in the snow."
December 6, 2013 –
page 600
70.26% ""Settembrini and Naphta....engage in constant duels - and we could not hope to present them in their entirety without fear of like-wise losing ourselves in the same desperate infinitude into which they daily threw themselves..."
Can I say that I am very relieved that Mann has refrained, this time, from presenting such duels in their entirety.
Hui!"
December 7, 2013 –
page 678
79.39% "Synchronicity is haunting my reading this week. Having found parallels with Hogarth's theory of the arabesque line of beauty in Le Temps Retouvé earlier this week, now I've come across the newly introduced character, Mynheer Peeperkorn in The Magic Mountain, and found several references to his "hochgezogenen Arabesken", his "raised brow of arabesques". These two books are criss-crossing through each other's territory"
December 7, 2013 –
page 679
79.51% "More parallels:
"much like one might feel watching an elderly priest of some alien cult hitch up his robes and dance"
"wie etwa die bejahrter Priester eines fremden Kults sie erregen würde, der mit gerafften Gewändern und wunderlicher Grazie vor dem Opferaltar tanzte"
Le Temps Retrouvé:
"par étourderie, le mauvais prêtre oublia de payer sa chambre. Jupien..agita le tronc..en disant, "Pour les frais du culte,""
December 8, 2013 –
page 716
83.84% ""Understandable. Logical. Eminently justified. Forgive me, Mynheer Peeperkorn, for having arbitrarily completed your sentence. I risk it only because I am convinced of your complete acquiescence." Ah, settled, Herr Castorp, settled..."
December 13, 2013 –
page 777
90.98% "I stayed up late last night with Hans Castorp, listening to Radames and Aida, Carmen and Don José, Gounod's Faust and Schubert's Am Brunnen vor dem Tore, and I gained a little insight into the depths of Hans Castorp's soul (yes, there are depths there) and into his years in the hermetic world of the Magic Mountain..."
December 14, 2013 –
page 828
96.96% "I've been identifying more and more with Hans of late and as we both sat listening to yet another diatribe from Naphta on the evils of 'science', I realised something I'd been missing: Hans is me, I am Hans. He arrived on the mountain the same day I did. We've been here for..years. His rest cure in the Berghof has been my 'rest cure', book in hand. When he turns a blind eye to the goings on there, I do too. Everyman!"
December 14, 2013 – Finished Reading

Comments Showing 1-50 of 91 (91 new)


message 1: by Fionnuala (last edited Dec 19, 2013 10:16AM) (new) - added it

Fionnuala Half way through the very fine John E Woods translation of this book, I began to wonder what Mann’s writing style is really like so I bought the German version and looked at the original words used in some of the more interestingly phrased sentences, like the one I quoted earlier:
There is not that much time left in any case, it's rushing by slapdash as it is, or if that's too noisy a way of putting it, it's whisking past hurry-scurry.

I thought 'hurry-scurry' sounded noisier than 'slapdash' so I looked at the original:

Viel ist es ohnehin nicht mehr damit, es geht nachgerade holterdiepolter oder, wenn das zu lärmend gesagt ist, es geht husch, husch

'Holterdiepolter' is a rushing-sounding word and so much noisier than 'slapdash', which is a bit slapdash as a choice, while 'husch, husch' is wonderfully quiet, in a way that 'hurry-scurry' can't manage.
I understand Woods's dilemma - how do you find a word for fast moving that is as quiet as 'husch', although the word 'whoosh' might work. But the dilemma also underlines the intricacies of the author's word choices, that extra dimension in a writer’s style that we miss when we read in translation.
However, Woods did consistently capture Mann’s ironic tone throughout this novel: the playfulness with which Mann treats both the main character and the reader comes across perfectly.
I found some other curious translation dilemmas that may be interesting for those who have read The Magic Mountain: head nurse Mylendonk ‘quäkte� when she speoke - Woods uses ‘croaked� but the German is funnier somehow, given that she pushed out her underlip as well while speaking. When she says ‘manalive�, it is ‘Menchenkind� in German. When she says ‘twiddle-twaddle', it’s ‘Schnickschnack� in the original, and I wonder why Woods didn’t leave that word in German - it is a great word and since twiddle-twaddle means empty chatter, i.e. without meaning, why should Schnickschnack not be left in place?
Frau Chauchat is described as 'schmaläugigleisetreterischen' in the piece about Behrens painting her portrait, which Woods translates as ‘pussyfooting�. I wondered about pussyfooting as a choice - it doesn’t fit her firm character although he could be making a play on her name - so I tried to break the German word apart to figure out why Mann chose it. ‘Schmaläugig� means with lowered eyebrows, ‘leise� means still or quiet, ‘Treterischen� means traitorous. I can’t see the connection to pussyfooting but I can see how it relates to Hans Castorp view of her consenting to be a model for Behrens.
'Mischmasch' is translated as 'hodge-podge' but it could have been left as 'Mischmasch' and the reader would have understood.
One final point about Mann’s word choices: Herr Wehsal’s name means ‘agony� and he is in a constant agony of love for Claudia Chauchat. Perfect.


Tony This is wonderful, Fionnuala. Your excitement leaps out of the words.


Kalliope Well, Fionnuala this is an exquisite review. We have been exchanging little snippets about coincidences that we encountered in TMM and Proust, but what you have shown here is something different. In my reading of both works I found the way I felt, the way I reacted to both novels very different. Thomas Mann remains so much colder than the ghostly Proust. But you have now convinced me that there is something deeper that associates both works more closely than I had realized.

Both have a certain nervousness about one's perceptions and about how things, reality, shifts... That may be why both authors posit themselves outside of time.


Kris Beautifully observed and written, Fionnuala! Your sensitivity to the different levels of convergence goes right to the heart of the novels, especially in your consideration of the authors' exploration of time. And your comment on translation issues is wonderful as well.


message 5: by Garima (new)

Garima Lovely review, Fionnuala and an informative first comment. I'll make a point of reading Proust and Mann in the same year.


Dolors Absolutely fascinating review Fiounnuala, I find the way you weave these two masterpieces together creating a unique and complete vision of the subjects dealt in both novels simply delightful. In spite of TTM being a tough climb for me, I am willing to meet Proust, hopefully in 2014.


Samadrita Intriguing comparison, Fio. The similarities you outlined between Proust and Mann's creations have now convinced me to read Proust in 2014. TMM left me a little unsatisfied but I am hoping Proust wouldn't. Excellent review!


message 8: by Riku (new) - added it

Riku Sayuj Fionnuala wrote: "Half way through the very fine John E Woods translation of this book, I began to wonder what Mann’s writing style is really like so I bought the German version and looked at the original words used..."

Wow, this comment is truly amazing. Thanks!


message 9: by Fionnuala (new) - added it

Fionnuala Kalliope wrote: "Well, Fionnuala this is an exquisite review. We have been exchanging little snippets about coincidences that we encountered in TMM and Proust, but what you have shown here is something different. ..."

But I forgot Wagner, Kalliope. Parsifal is another very strong link but it is so long since we read those parts in La Recherche that I'd forgotten about it.


message 10: by Fionnuala (last edited Dec 19, 2013 11:56AM) (new) - added it

Fionnuala Kris wrote: "Beautifully observed and written, Fionnuala! Your sensitivity to the different levels of convergence goes right to the heart of the novels, especially in your consideration of the authors' exploration of time. And your comment on translation issues is wonderful as well."

I do think that reading The Magic Mountain alongside Proust was a great help, especially around the middle when my attention flagged a bit - and I was prioritising Proust. TMM picked up for me when I began to see more and more convergence between the two.


message 11: by Fionnuala (new) - added it

Fionnuala Garima wrote: "Lovely review, Fionnuala and an informative first comment. I'll make a point of reading Proust and Mann in the same year."

Make it next year, Garima, for TMM in any case, as the anniversary of WWI will make reading this book even more significant - and the war features in Proust too - another parallel I forgot to mention.
But I'm pleased I got it finished on the eve of 2014.


message 12: by Fionnuala (new) - added it

Fionnuala Dolors wrote: "Absolutely fascinating review Fiounnuala, I find the way you weave these two masterpieces together creating a unique and complete vision of the subjects dealt in both novels simply delightful. In s..."

I do hope you get to read Proust, Dolors. Will you read it in French - part of the magic of Proust is in the writing.


message 13: by Fionnuala (new) - added it

Fionnuala Samadrita wrote: "Intriguing comparison, Fio. The similarities you outlined between Proust and Mann's creations have now convinced me to read Proust in 2014. TMM left me a little unsatisfied but I am hoping Proust w..."

A quote I meant to put in the review but couldn't fit in was this one, Sam:
Farewell, Hans Castorp, life's problem child. Your story is over. We have told it to its end; it was neither short on diversion nor long on boredom - it was a hermetic story.

At times during the reading, I thought the opposite, that it was short on diversion and long on boredom but at a certain point, the magic of it seemed to hit me, I began to admire the style, Mann's ironic tone, Settembrini, the verbal dandy, who reminded me of Proust, and from then on, it was a complete pleasure.


message 14: by Fionnuala (last edited Dec 19, 2013 11:50AM) (new) - added it

Fionnuala Riku wrote: "Fionnuala wrote: "Half way through the very fine John E Woods translation of this book, I began to wonder what Mann’s writing style is really like so I bought the German version and looked at the original words used..."

Wow, this comment is truly amazing. Thanks! "


Glad you appreciated the point I was making about the translation, Riku. And I want to repeat that I loved reading Woods' prose - I think he is a very fine writer. Translators don't get nearly enough praise for the book they literally write.


message 15: by Teresa (new)

Teresa Very fine review, Fionnuala. Fascinating too. I love reading about and finding parallels, as you do here.


message 16: by Fionnuala (new) - added it

Fionnuala Teresa wrote: "Very fine review, Fionnuala. Fascinating too. I love reading about and finding parallels, as you do here."

Yes, Teresa - it's like seeing the authors we read dialogue with each other and Proust seems to dialogue with everyone!


message 17: by Teresa (new)

Teresa Proust encompasses all is what I'm coming to understand, even though I haven't read him ...


Warwick I really loved this review, despite my ambivalence about Proust. Your descriptions of how Mann stretches a moment ‘out of all proportion to real time� reminded me of a sentence I loved in Pynchon's Against the Day, where we are told about two lovers saying goodbye at a train station:

though their kiss went on for what could have been hours, so little did it have to do with clock time, she was already miles away down those rails before their lips even touched.


message 19: by Fionnuala (last edited Dec 20, 2013 02:10AM) (new) - added it

Fionnuala Warwick wrote: "I really loved this review, despite my ambivalence about Proust..."

There is something hallucinatory about your quote from Pynchon which reminds me of another parallel between Mann and Proust - the effect of narcotics on our senses - and I'd already been struck by that very convergence between Proust and the Most Famous Opium-Eater Ever when I read his diaries earlier this year -/review/show...

This quote by Mann, which I couldn't fit in the review, elaborates his approach to stretching time and perhaps Pynchon may be aware of it - although I don't necessarily see influences everywhere, believing that good minds independently arrive at the same conclusions, and Mann and Proust are the perfect examples of that :

A musical piece entitled “Five Minute Waltz� lasts five minutes - and this only defines its relationship to time. A story whose contents involved a time span of five minutes, however, could, by means of an extraordinary scrupulosity in filling up those five minutes, last a thousand times as long - and still remain short on boredom, although in relation to its imaginary time it would be very long in the telling. On the other hand, it is possible for a narrative’s content time to exceed its own duration immeasurably.This is accomplished by diminishment - and we use this term to describe an illusory, or, to be quite explicit, diseased element, that is obviously pertinent here: diminishment occurs to some extentwhenever a narrative makes use of hermetic magic and a temporal hyperperspective reminiscent of certain anomalous experiences of reality that imply that the senses have been transcended. The diaries of opium-eaters record how, during the brief period of ecstasy, the drugged person's dreams have a temporal scope of ten, twenty, thirty, sometimes sixty years or even surpass all limits of man's ability to experience time - dreams, that is, whose imaginary time span vastly exceeds their actual duration and which are characterised by an incredible diminishment of the experience of time, with images thronging past so swiftly that, as one hashish-smoker puts it, the intoxicated user's brain seems 'to have had something removed, like the mainspring from a broken watch.' A narrative, then, can set to work and deal with time in much the same way as those depraved dreams. But since it can "deal" with time, it is clear that time, which is the element of the narrative, can also become its 'subject'; and although it would be going to far to say that one can 'narrate time',it is apparently not such an absurd notion to want to narrate 'about time' - so that a term like 'time novel' may well take on an oddly dreamlike double meaning.


°­²¹°ù±ð²Ô· If I might be allowed to help...
Schmaläugig suggests to me either those Eastern European eyes that Claudia had, or narrowing of the eyes, in a closely observant kind of way.
Leise, as you say, is quiet, soft, but treten is to step. Softly stepping, i think. Cautiously watchful.
Pussy footing, isn't that mucking about, not getting to the point? Not quite the right connotation.
Fine review.
I'm just at the exciting bit of Temps Retrouvé. Can't stop.


message 21: by Fionnuala (new) - added it

Fionnuala ·°­²¹°ù±ð²Ô· wrote: ".. but treten is to step. Softly stepping, i think. Cautiously watchful..."

Ah yes, 'softly stepping', that makes more sense of both the German and the English, and it makes 'pussyfooting' an excellent play on words on Woods' part. This example does underline once again how carefully chosen Mann's metaphors are; that he can manage to describe Claudia in such a subtle cat-like way is wonderful. I feel I should have picked that up from 'pussyfooting' but I was sidetracked by the real meaning of the word which didn't make sense to me in the context.
But I have even more respect now for the translation - I think Mann must be very, very difficult to translate.


message 22: by James (new)

James A great review and I would read the description of Claudia as more like quietly observant and certainly not pussyfooting


message 23: by Fionnuala (new) - added it

Fionnuala James wrote: "A great review and I would read the description of Claudia as more like quietly observant and certainly not pussyfooting"

'Quietly observant' fits very well, James, as you have quietly observed!
I think we are all agreed that there is nothing 'pussyfooting' about Claudia Chauchat!


message 24: by Magdelanye (new)

Magdelanye its delighful to know that others love the interactions between the books they are currently reading. I especially love it when on first glance they couldnt be more different. How about Pema Chodrin and jack Kerouac and The Elegance of the Hedgehog?


message 25: by Fionnuala (new) - added it

Fionnuala Magdelanye wrote: "its delighful to know that others love the interactions between the books they are currently reading. I especially love it when on first glance they couldnt be more different. How about Pema Chodr..."

Glad to know you enjoy when books echo each other, Magdelanye.
Of the three you mention, I've only read Muriel Barbery...


message 26: by Magdelanye (new)

Magdelanye Pema Chodrin writes about mindfullness

but so, surprisingly to me who devoured Kerouac when young,but missed this point,does he.

Barbery as you know,has created an amazing dialogue on the central role mindfullness plays in acheiving 'ordinary' happiness through self/acceptance.


message 27: by Fionnuala (last edited Dec 28, 2013 09:27AM) (new) - added it

Fionnuala Magdelanye wrote: "...Barbery as you know,has created an amazing dialogue on the central role mindfullness plays in acheiving 'ordinary' happiness through self/acceptance..

And her narrator in L'élégance du hérisson likes to dialogue with books.


Kalliope Unliked and Liked again.... Perfect to reread as I prepare to transfer back to Mann again.


Kalliope Reading Proust Musicien it draws attention to the number seven from the Septuor. Also number of volumes and times the Vinteuil sonata is heard and one wonders if the seven is to coincide with the number of full notes and colours in the rainbow.


message 30: by Fionnuala (new) - added it

Fionnuala Kalliope wrote: "Reading Proust Musicien it draws attention to the number seven from the Septuor. Also number of volumes and times the Vinteuil sonata is heard and one wonders if the seven is to coi..."

Thanks, Kalliope. Another parallel between the two - the number seven.


message 31: by Elaine (new)

Elaine Fionnuala ~ I enjoyed reading your wonderfully written and informative review of MM. As I was selecting my current choice of books I was torn between reading MM and Proust's ISOLT and it's interesting to read that there are numerous parallel themes. I have often wondered what opinion and influence each Mann and Proust had of the the other's writing? (I'm reminded that Joyce and Proust had nothing nice to say of the other. At first I found this quite surprising and then realized that both genius' were, perhaps, too self consumed to fully appreciate and acknowledge the other)


message 32: by Fionnuala (new) - added it

Fionnuala Elaine wrote: "Fionnuala ~ I enjoyed reading your wonderfully written and informative review of MM...I have often wondered what opinion Mann and Proust had of the other's writing? (I'm reminded that Joyce and Proust had nothing nice to say of the other..."

Yes, Elaine, it is curious the amount of uniquely creative talent that emerged during the first decades of the twentieth century - Joyce, Proust, Woolf, Mann and they're just the ones I've read. And yet, as you say, they don't seem to have sought each other out much or been influenced by each other's work, except for Virginia Woolf who has written about her experience of reading both Joyce and Proust. I don't know if she ever mentioned reading Mann. Isn't it interesting that it is the woman in this group who talks of reading her contemporaries, and in Proust's case, with absolute awe. Proust only refers to writers of the past with such respect. Joyce too. And Mann, his references are more towards music, aren't they?


message 33: by Elaine (new)

Elaine Proust's isolation and illness explains, in part, why he didn't stop to read Mann and he died as Mann was mid stride in his accomplishments.

I also found it interesting that, as you pointed out, Mann used the writing technique of speaking directly to his reader, as did Proust. This subject was mentioned in the discussions of The Guermantes Way.


message 34: by Fionnuala (new) - added it

Fionnuala Elaine wrote: "I also found it interesting that, as you pointed out, Mann used the writing technique of speaking directly to his reader, as did Proust. This subject was mentioned in the discussions of The Guermantes Way. "

Yes, good point, Elaine. I probably hadn't started TMM when I was reading the Guermantes book so didn't think to mention Mann in the discussion. Did anyone mention Tristram Shandy in this context? I was looking through that book the other day - I read half of it a few years ago and mean to finish it this year. It was written during the 1700's and yet has such a Modern feel about it. The narrator addresses the reader on the very first page, and frequently afterwards.


message 35: by Elaine (new)

Elaine Fionnuala wrote: "Elaine wrote: "I also found it interesting that, as you pointed out, Mann used the writing technique of speaking directly to his reader, as did Proust. This subject was mentioned in the discussions..."Did anyone mention Tristram Shandy in this context?

Reem had poised the question: Do any of you know more about this author/reader relationship? How far it goes back? Who first started it? For what end?"

Martin's reply: Breaking the fourth wall this way is a metafictional technique that goes back a long way, in print certainly to Cervantes and on the stage back to the Greek dramatists. Proust takes the reader out of the story itself to remind us overtly of his life's work for a moment. Given the kind of ambition he has, he could have done this many times earlier if he hadn't been so preoccupied with the inner lives of his characters, I think.

Karen, in her informative post mentioned Tristram Shandy and more; karen: Then there's also Diderot, as you mention, and the one he's often compared to, Tristram Shandy, who are both basically testing out the waters, seeing what you can do with this novel idea, once you free yourself from the dictates of the classic model. ... and this: there were plenty of writers who did this in the 19th century too: the most famous one is probably at the end of Jane Eyre (Reader, I married him).

Jack: I should think it goes all the way back to the beginning, in the Oral Tradition; certainly to Homer.

This commentary is from TGW May 26 - pg 2

Thank you Fionnuala for your this exchange and your reply to my inquiry. I hope I'm not out of line to quote others from past discussions.


message 36: by Fionnuala (new) - added it

Fionnuala Elaine wrote: "This commentary is from TGW May 26 - pg 2"

Thanks for all that, Elaine. Glad to see Tristram Shandy was mentioned.


Kalliope I have just realized that I had commented upon this but not pressed the magic button to the magic review to the magic mountain....

I just did...

:)))


message 38: by Lada (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lada this atmosphere of time closed , of time suspended , this height of etheral makes it special where only chords come in, mingling with despair and inquitude. Love or sentiment like magic button to the creativity to go beyond death.


message 39: by Fionnuala (new) - added it

Fionnuala Lada wrote: "this atmosphere of time closed , of time suspended , this height of etheral makes it special where only chords come in, mingling with despair and inquitude. Love or sentiment like magic button to t..."

Yes, Lada, that's more or less it.


message 40: by Lada (last edited Jan 09, 2014 01:58AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lada Oh, it is much too complicated. Beautiful and musical, like a sanctuary, close... Proustian and sensitive. Artistic on top of it. Thanx for review. A Lovely one


message 41: by Peter (new)

Peter Paul Ricoeur noticed a convergence of themes in The Magic Mountain and In Search of Lost Time, too. He added Mrs. Dalloway to the list for a very interesting discussion on the phenomenology of time in the three novels. Time and Narrative, Volume 2 (Ricoeur, 1985, Univ. of Chicago Press). Well worth the read and only $9.99 on kindle. Ricoeur, I've just discovered and quite happily, was a genius.


message 42: by Fionnuala (new) - added it

Fionnuala Peter wrote: "Paul Ricoeur noticed a convergence of themes in The Magic Mountain and In Search of Lost Time, too. He added Mrs. Dalloway to the list for a very interesting discussion on the phenomenology of time in the three novels. Time and Narrative, Volume 2 (Ricoeur, 1985..."

I wasn't aware of Ricoeur's work, Peter, but I've just looked him up. His book on time and narrative does sound like essential reading for those of us who've been intrigued by the skilful stretching and interweaving of real time and narrative time in Mann, Proust and Woolf, not to mention Joyce whose final book treating the circular nature of time I'm reading at the moment.
Thank you for pointing me towards him. I will look at the second volume as you suggest but the reviews on gr imply that Ricoeur is difficult to read - how did you find him?


Jonathan I second the Recommendation, though have only read pieces - I know NR has read it and rates it highly - you remind me I need to properly spend time with his work


Nathan "N.R." Gaddis Peter wrote: "Paul Ricoeur"

Oh yes third'd. And the thing about Ricoeur is is that he is useful for readers.


message 45: by Fionnuala (new) - added it

Fionnuala Killer wrote: "Fionnuala wrote: "I love when the themes of two books I happen to be reading overlap."

Me too, Fionnuala! And what a bonus that the more we read, the more areas of overlap we discover."


...tripling and quadrupling the pleasure of reading, Killer.
But shhh - don't let's tell anyone!


Geoff Oh my! Yes! Excellent review!


message 47: by Fionnuala (new) - added it

Fionnuala Geoff wrote: "Oh my! Yes! Excellent review!"

Schnickschnack..
(view spoiler)


message 48: by Glenn (new)

Glenn Russell You set the gold standard for reviews, Fionnuala.

music plays such a big part in both works even as it does in my own life. -------- Yes! Such a treat when music is a central part in a novel for music-lovers. Perhaps you know, Mann was influenced by Schopenhauer, particularly Schopenhauer's philosophy of music.

Mann's Essays, including his famous essay on Schopenhauer is on my summer reading list. And, of course, relating to Schopenhauer, I plan to write a review.


message 49: by Fionnuala (new) - added it

Fionnuala Glenn wrote: "You set the gold standard for reviews, Fionnuala...."

Ah, Glenn, thanks for pulling this review out of its hermetically sealed archive and giving it another five minutes in the light ;-)
Re Music and Mann, I discovered a lot more in Doctor Faustus - and listened to some Schoenberg (the musician the main character was based on) - plus lots of Bach and Beethoven.
Haven't read any Schopenhauer but will look out for your thoughts on him.


message 50: by Steve (new)

Steve "And when those themes also reflect aspects of my own life experience, I feel a wonderful convergence, an exchange of awareness at an almost physical level as if the the space between the pages where the authors ideas are laid out and my reading of their pages has become porous and a continual flow happens between all three, an exchange not unlike the one that happens in the deepest tissues of the respiratory system when we breathe in and out."

This brings to my mind what a breath of fresh air your reviews have consistently been. I'd like to say that I have a similar kind of connection to your own insights, but that would be flattering myself. Still, I enjoy the stretch in considering your thoughts, and though both Proust and Mann are beyond my ken, I like reading more about their great works.


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