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Fionnuala's Reviews > Stoner

Stoner by John  Williams
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bookshelves: i-don-t-get-it

  

Albrecht Dürer: Job and his Wife

Vintage books seem to specialise in producing beautiful paperback editions of titles that have been out of print or have only recently been translated into English. I have a small collection of their red-spined covers sitting on my shelves. They all have something in common apart from the red spines; they are books I may read again sometime in my life because of the quality of the writing, the depth of the characterisation and the overall worth of the contents. They are books that won’t date and that I won’t outgrow.

A friend placed this Vintage book in my hands last week and said, you must read it and tell me what you think. I was curious as I’d noticed that Stoner, although written decades ago, had been getting a lot of attention recently and I was glad of the opportunity to read it at last. I put everything else aside and read the book over a short space of time, unusual for me as I often dip in and out of several books at the same time.
My edition has an introduction by John McGahern. McGahern is a writer I respect a lot. I’d love to see his books getting more attention—a re-release of McGahern's works would allow a new generation of readers to see how he evolved over time, how he kept rubbing away at a small number of themes until they were as smooth and perfect as a stone polished by the sea.
Smooth but not flat.
The word flat occurs to me because I found Williams' writing flat from the beginning, not flat as in spare or plain but flat as in lifeless.

The early part is a familiar story, the boy from the farm goes to college and meets a teacher who helps him discover his life’s passion. At that point, I thought: oh, wonderful, the author has been using a flat style in the early part so that he can provide a contrast in the section where his hero, William Stoner, discovers the pleasures of literature. And yes, there is huge promise in the device the author uses of having his hero awaken via a Shakespeare sonnet. But, although Stoner goes on to read widely, eventually teaching in a college, his literary journey doesn’t influence the language of the novel very much—there is no interplay between Williams� writing and Stoner’s literary evolution. It is as if Williams set out to avoid literary resonances, in fact I found more biblical parallels than literary ones.

But to continue with the literature issues, there are a few examples of Stoner’s teaching skills inserted into the text, and though he does sound like a very dedicated teacher, the extracts from lectures and the questions he puts to a student relating to poetry didn't match with what we are told of Stoner's passion for literature. But I did find it interesting and clever that each time he gazed through a window, or better still, opened a window, the language soared and I was breathing in fresh air alongside the main character. What joy! The few times that happened, I silently willed John Williams to keep the window open. But, except for some moving writing near the end, he preferred not to.

John McGahern quotes Williams in the introduction: when asked if literature is written to be entertaining, he answers, “Absolutely. My God, to read without joy is stupid�. I wouldn’t put it quite like that but there is truth in what Williams says. And a large part of the pleasure of reading comes from the quality of an author's writing. It’s interesting to note that I’ve struggled to write this review. I’ve been asking myself why it is so difficult to write about Stoner and the answer may lie in Williams� own words: when reading is a joy, the response to it is effortless, the review tumbles out, inspired by the words we’ve read. When there’s no joy, making a response is an enormous effort. However, since I rarely have to make such an effort (as I usually find reading a joy), I’ll challenge myself a little more.

I’ve concentrated on the writing because it’s always more important for me than the plot but I do pay attention to how the plot and the characters are handled. Early in the novel, Williams decides to have Stoner choose a wife. So Stoner goes to a shop and sees one he likes and decides to buy her straight away.
No. I’m joking, of course. And can I point out here that there is absolutely no humour in this book so my joke is out of place. Except it isn’t, because that’s more or less the way Stoner picks his wife. He sees Edith once and decides to marry her. She has no say whatever and Williams even stresses her passive reluctance. So the business is conducted between the girl's father and the prospective son-in-law. But Williams doesn’t plan on presenting this catalogue bride as a victim. Oh, no, the hero is the only victim in every episode of the long saga which is his life (I used the word 'hero' because Williams said in the interview quoted in the introduction that Stoner “is a real hero�).

I mentioned biblical echoes earlier. Stoner is like a Job figure; every possible plague is thrown at him, and his enemies are horribly diabolical, but he endures all of his ‘undeserved trials� with the utmost patience and rarely fights back.
That would be fine if he alone were the victim. But he is not the only victim. Apart from his wife, whose character remains one-dimensional throughout and her extraordinary ‘evil� nature unexplained, there is a daughter who becomes the true victim in the story. The author fails to underline that his hero never makes a real effort to save his daughter. I’m not blaming him for allowing the daughter to be sacrificed but I am asking the author to be aware of his main character’s failure to save her. It is never acknowledged. So how can he be a hero?

Stoner also stands by when a young women he becomes involved with is sacked because of him. Although other reasons are given, the author implies that Stoner can't save her because he has to save his daughter instead. Except that he doesn't save his daughter.

There were a few occasions when I wondered if Williams was really aware of what he was doing in this novel: the way he has Stoner choose his wife; the way he handles the daughter story; the loose ends that are scattered throughout, and finally, the enemies he chooses for his 'hero' (apart from the ‘evil� wife).
The main enemy is a work colleague called Lomax. There are no reasons given for Lomax’s unrelenting attacks upon Stoner. Both Lomax and the student he engages to help in the vicious attacks on Stoner, have physical disabilities, so one of the implications of their unexplained vendetta has to be jealousy of Stoner’s physical strength. I found that disturbing. John McGahern, in the introduction, refrains from commenting on this aspect of the novel, simply stating that the portrait of Hollis Lomax is “the most complex� in the entire book. McGahern doesn’t really discuss the story in any depth. Instead, he writes an introduction that is little more than a summary as if Williams were an old friend for whom he was doing a favour.

I mentioned loose ends or red herrings so I had better deal with them before I finish. Stoner refuses to join the army in 1917 when the United States declares war on Germany. His friends join up and one of them, Finch, accuses Stoner of letting everyone down. While we, the readers, might agree with Stoner’s decision, we worry that it will come back to haunt him especially as Finch returns in glory and becomes the dean of the faculty where Stoner teaches. But that threat is never realised, and surprisingly so, considering all the other much more unlikely plagues that fall on Stoner’s head.

There is some mystery implied about Stoner’s wife and her relationship with her parents but that too is never explained, a big gap since everything about her needs further development. McGahern says she is in the tradition of the ‘beautiful, unstable� heroine found in O’Neill, Tenessee Williams, Faulkner and Scott Fitzgerald. I can’t imagine that any of those writers created a character as paper-thin as Edith Stoner.
A further loose end is Stoner's first literature teacher, a man called Archer Sloane. He is given a significant role in the beginning but is not exploited very much afterwards. That is a real pity as he was my favourite character.

The front cover of my copy contains a sticker which reads:
  
    The greatest novel you’ve never read
  

If this is the greatest novel I had never read, what am I going to do for the rest of my life?
I may have to take up bridge.
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Reading Progress

December 20, 2013 – Shelved
January 31, 2014 – Started Reading
February 2, 2014 – Finished Reading

Comments Showing 1-50 of 147 (147 new)


message 1: by Kalliope (new)

Kalliope I had been wondering whether I wanted to read this.. a friend of mine recently received it as a gift, and I was thinking of joining her in the read.

Looking forward to your opinion on this one.


Tony You'll notice who didn't.


message 3: by Fionnuala (new) - added it

Fionnuala Kall, I will write a review and I aught to write it soon while I've still got something to say...

Yes, Tony, I noticed the lone three star rating was yours. I wonder if our views on this will overlap..


Dolors I am in the team of those who loved it. But then I also like Banville.


message 5: by Fionnuala (new) - added it

Fionnuala Dolors wrote: "I am in the team of those who loved it. But then I also like Banville."

Thanks for commenting, Dolores. I noticed your review among the five star ones but haven't gone through any of them yet.
I have read a lot of Banville's books and respect him very much.
Now that you've mentioned him in relation to Stoner, I will try to examine Williams' work in that light; I must say that a comparison between their writing hadn't occurred to me.


message 6: by Dolors (last edited Feb 04, 2014 11:01AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Dolors I see both writing styles soaked with nostalgia and some degree of similarity in the way both writers manage to write about mundane people who become extraordinary leading ordinary lives. I can't wait to read your extended thoughts on it, Fiounnuala, but I understand Williams is not everybody's cup of tea.


message 7: by Jan-Maat (new)

Jan-Maat If this is the greatest novel I’ve never read, what am I going to do for the rest of my life?
I may have to take up bridge.


When I was only half the age that I am today I was told that I was already too old to learn how to play bridge!


message 8: by Fionnuala (new) - added it

Fionnuala Jan-Maat wrote: "When I was only half the age that I am today I was told that I was already too old to learn how to play bridge! .."

There's no hope for me then - no great books left, no chance of learning bridge, I'll just have to spend my days reading reviews on gr...


Lynne King I've re-read your review Fionnuala and it really is
beautiful. My...You have a way with words...


message 10: by Kalliope (new)

Kalliope Funny, because my opinion of Niebla is that the writing was too simple.. but then humor saved the book.. sad to see that in this one you did not encounter a palliative to the flat writing.

On hold for me for the moment... I have so much to read anyway...


message 11: by Fionnuala (new) - added it

Fionnuala Kalliope wrote: "Funny, because my opinion of Niebla is that the writing was too simple.. but then humor saved the book.. sad to see that in this one you did not encounter a palliative to the flat writing..."

Yes, Kalliope, a little humour might have redeemed this for me - the book takes itself far too seriously. But I suspect that if Williams could have handled humour, he wouldn't have written this book.
And I'm sure those who admire it will point out quickly that humour has no place in such a 'tragic' story.


message 12: by Kalliope (new)

Kalliope Fionnuala wrote: "Kalliope wrote: "Funny, because my opinion of Niebla is that the writing was too simple.. but then humor saved the book.. sad to see that in this one you did not encounter a palliative..."

Your Dürer seems a better cover for this book from what I can gather.


message 13: by Fionnuala (new) - added it

Fionnuala Kalliope wrote: "Your Dürer seems a better cover for this book from what I can gather. ."

Oh, yes, Kall, the Dürer is perfect - but only if the author and the publisher had a teeny, tiny sense of humour!


message 14: by Fionnuala (new) - added it

Fionnuala Lynne wrote: "I've re-read your review Fionnuala and it really is
beautiful. My...You have a way with words..."


Thanks for rereading the review, Lynne - you must have the patience of Job!


Samadrita Interestingly I have this same Vintage edition lying unread on my shelves. Your gripe with the flat writing is understandable but now I'm even more curious about this book.


message 16: by Fionnuala (new) - added it

Fionnuala Samadrita wrote: "Interestingly I have this same Vintage edition lying unread on my shelves. Your gripe with the flat writing is understandable but now I'm even more curious about this book."

That's the perfect response to the review, Sam. After all, Stoner might just be the greatest book you've never read.


Lynne King Fionnuala wrote: "Lynne wrote: "I've re-read your review Fionnuala and it really is
beautiful. My...You have a way with words..."

Thanks for rereading the review, Lynne - you must have the patience of Job!"


I do believe I do. I'm not going through a good stage in life at the moment and I'm questioning everything. Yes Job...suits me at the moment...


message 18: by Fionnuala (new) - added it

Fionnuala Lynne wrote: "...Yes Job suits me at the moment..."

Sorry to hear that, Lynne - I'm sure this stage will pass.
(Now I sound like a pesky Job's Comforter but I'm hoping I can raise a tiny laugh)


Lawyer Beautifully written review. I've also noticed the large amount of attention this novel has been receiving lately. And, I've never read it. Will it be the greatest one? I'll just have to see. And, if it is, I bid one club...learn those conventions. *grin*


message 20: by Teresa (last edited Feb 09, 2014 03:10PM) (new)

Teresa I had been telling myself I should read this book soon because of the many GR friends who loved it, but I was never sure of it, which is why I'd put it off. I still may read it ... one day.


message 21: by Ben (new)

Ben Winch Interesting you like those red-spined Vintage editions, Fi. I presume you mean the Vintage Classics? I can't stand 'em! But I've bought a few myself. (They're cheap.)


message 22: by Fionnuala (new) - added it

Fionnuala Mike wrote: "Beautifully written review. I've also noticed the large amount of attention this novel has been receiving lately. And, I've never read it. Will it be the greatest one? I'll just have to see. And, if it is, I bid one club...learn those conventions. *grin* "

I've begun to read the other reviews of this book here on gr, Mike and I see that Stoner is a big hit with many Americans so you may love it too. I don't know anything about bridge - yet - so I expect you'll win the game whether you love the book or not...


message 23: by Fionnuala (new) - added it

Fionnuala Teresa wrote: "I had been telling myself I should read this book soon because of the many GR friends who loved it, but I was never sure of it, which is why I'd put it off. I still may read it ... one day."

I'm glad to see that most of you who have commented still intend to read the book, Teresa. I did try to steer the review along a middle channel - it's always good to see older books get a new lease of life.


Dolors I agree about the simple writing, it's totally bare and humorless. But for me that was precisely what made the passages with open windows and those final chapters all the more moving and heartrending. Maybe I empathized with this grey man who had no prospects or ambitions because I recognized a part of myself in his conformism and passivity. (view spoiler). Well argued review and very spot-on observations about Williams' writing style Fiounnuala, you nail it. It's a matter of connecting or not connecting with the writer what differentiates meaningful novels from mere transactions of words and that's up to each reader to decide.


message 25: by Fionnuala (last edited Feb 10, 2014 03:52AM) (new) - added it

Fionnuala Ben wrote: "Interesting you like those red-spined Vintage editions, Fi. I presume you mean the Vintage Classics? I can't stand 'em! But I've bought a few myself. (They're cheap.)"

I have Sebald, Calvino, Poe, Huxley, Vasily Grossman and Angela Carter, all in Vintage Classics - the red spines make for a nice splash of colour on a shelf. I must admit though that I wrote that first paragraph about Vintage Classics simply to emphasise that I love when classics get reissued - I don't really care who reissues them.
But I do wonder how the publishers decide what to reissue? Are there factors going on behind the scenes which the book buying population may not be aware of? That there are no longer any royalties to be paid on a particular book perhaps, or that a book is about to be made into a film? Are there sociological shifts in thinking that publishers seek to mirror? Are there committees of reputable authors, like the men who wrote the blurbs on the back of my copy, Julian Barnes, Ian McEwan, Colm McCann and Nick Hornby, who are consulted before a book is chosen for re-release? I'm just curious...


message 26: by Elaine (new)

Elaine Fionnuala, I always enjoy reading your reviews, this time of Stoner. Last year I had it on my 'read' radar and then I met Proust ; )


message 27: by Fionnuala (new) - added it

Fionnuala Dolors wrote: "I agree about the simple writing, it's totally bare and humorless. But for me that was precisely what made the passages with open windows and those final chapters all the more moving and heartrending. Maybe I empathized with this grey man who had no prospects or ambitions because I recognized a part of myself in his conformism and passivity.."

His passivity isn't a problem if it harms no one but himself, Dolors. I just felt the author, who created the entire scenario and allowed his main character's passivity to wreck his daughter's life, seemed to deliberately ignore this fault in Stoner's make-up, maintaining instead that he was 'a real hero'. It made me wonder about Williams himself...


message 28: by Lee (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lee Klein "I found Williams' writing flat from the beginning, not flat as in spare or plain but flat as in lifeless." Whoa. Differing opinions. This might have been too hyped for you when you read it? I read it only having read a few good reviews and LOVED it. Such is life! Long live subjectivity!


message 29: by Fionnuala (new) - added it

Fionnuala Lee wrote: "".. Whoa. Differing opinions. This might have been too hyped for you when you read it?.."

I didn't read any reviews before I read the book - and I left the introduction till afterwards but, yes, I had noticed the hype and I can't say if that influenced me or not - I just know how the book affected me as I read it.
As you say, long live the freedom to see things differently.


Cheryl I liked your review Fionnuala, because even though I Ioved this book, your review is spot on -- I get what you mean. Your review is quite thoughtful and generous too -- I loved your comments about wishing Williams would keep the window open -- so it seems unlikely your dissatisfaction could be accounted for by just being in the wrong frame of mind as I at first wondered. My own joy in the reading was the pleasure of his rhythm, the quiet humour (yes), and of the mid-century midwest America sensibility that infused the style of the prose and shaped the character and his life and thus the story. And paradoxically, your review enhanced my own appreciation of the book, so thank you!


Dolors Fionnuala wrote: "Dolors wrote: "I agree about the simple writing, it's totally bare and humorless. But for me that was precisely what made the passages with open windows and those final chapters all the more moving..."

You are right. This is definitely a masculine (probably biased and soaked with guilt) vision of a failed marriage and a strained father-daughter relationship. I also thought how much of "biographical" could have been lurking in between the lines in Stoner's story. That only makes it even all the more interesting for the analysis that could be made on the male psyche.


message 32: by Fionnuala (new) - added it

Fionnuala Elaine wrote: "Fionnuala, I always enjoy reading your reviews, this time of Stoner. Last year I had it on my 'read' radar and then I met Proust ; )"

Proust or Stoner, Elaine? Well, Stoner is definitely the shorter read. People talk about it being a quick read too as in difficult to put down - although I had more difficulty in picking it up than in putting it down....


Garima Whenever I'll pick this book and read how Stoner would choose his wife, I'll laugh. This is the kind of negative reviews I enjoy - they don't come with a hammer to demolish the book or the writer.


message 34: by Fionnuala (new) - added it

Fionnuala Dolors wrote:"...This is definitely a masculine (probably biased and soaked with guilt) vision of a failed marriage and a strained father-daughter relationship. I also thought how much of "biographical" could have been lurking in between the lines in Stoner's story. That only makes it even all the more interesting for the analysis that could be made on the male psyche."

I agree that this book presents a very one-sided view of marriage and fatherhood, Dolors. That would be fine if it was simply Stoner's view. An author should be free to give his characters any positive or negative traits he chooses, as long as he is aware of what he is doing - here we get the impression that Williams simply doesn't see his own character's limitations.


message 35: by Fionnuala (last edited Feb 11, 2014 05:04AM) (new) - added it

Fionnuala Garima wrote: "This is the kind of negative reviews I enjoy - they don't come with a hammer to demolish the book or the writer."

I did try to be gentle, Garima. I'm glad you noticed!


ReemK10 (Paper Pills) Did your friend who gave you this book to read like it?


message 37: by Fionnuala (new) - added it

Fionnuala ReemK10 (Paper Pills) wrote: "Did your friend who gave you this book to read like it?"

No she didn't like it, Reem, but for slightly different reasons.


message 38: by Fionnuala (new) - added it

Fionnuala Cheryl wrote: "I liked your review Fionnuala, because even though I Ioved this book, your review is spot on -- I get what you mean. Your review is quite thoughtful and generous too -- I loved your comments about wishing Williams would keep the window open..."

Just noticed your very well-phrased comment, Cheryl. Sorry for not responding earlier. I am very glad that I haven't interfered with your good feeling about this book but I felt the need to air the few difficulties I had with it.


Jimmy Great review. Yes, we agree on a lot of points even though we came to different conclusions. It's been so long since I read it... I wish I could think about your individual points, but I forget all the details, just the general feeling I got when reading it. Although I do agree with your point about humor. I think of Williams as one of the few humorless writers that I've liked. Most of the writers I love are very funny. And I think humor belongs even in the most tragic of stories... maybe especially in those.


message 40: by Fionnuala (new) - added it

Fionnuala Jimmy wrote: "Great review. Yes, we agree on a lot of points even though we came to different conclusions. It's been so long since I read it... I wish I could think about your individual points, but I forget all the details, just the general feeling I got when reading it. Although I do agree with your point about humor. I think of Williams as one of the few humorless writers that I've liked. Most of the writers I love are very funny. And I think humor belongs even in the most tragic of stories... maybe especially in those."

I just think it's interesting that we both read it with a critical eye but somehow you were able to see beyond the issues which irked you while I was stuck with my negative findings and unable to identify much else of value. But that's what makes sharing views and reviews here on gr so interesting: the chance to see and perhaps understand how a book can both reveal and hide aspects of itself depending on who is reading it. This one hid itself from me from the beginning.


message 41: by [deleted user] (last edited Aug 29, 2014 06:14AM) (new)

Fionnuala

You write a very compelling review with cogent reasons for why this writing did not resonate with you. I especially liked your detailed thoughts as presented in the spoiler wherein you marshal excellent evidence in support of your informed opinion. (view spoiler) I will say I liked the book, but my interactions with books are so personal, and I mine them for what I need to face life. Knowing that my tastes are so whimsical and subjective, I rarely recommend books to others. Thank you for challenging my own conclusions about this novel. Counterpoints are most helpful when presented with grace, civility, and support.


message 42: by Fionnuala (new) - added it

Fionnuala sckenda wrote: "Fionnuala
You write a very compelling review with cogent reasons for why this writing did not resonate with you..."


I appreciate your thoughtful comments very much, Steve, and I share your opinion about the subjective nature of our individual reactions to books. The freedom we have in this corner of goodreads to air different viewpoints is wonderful - it is what makes exchanges such as these so rich and satisfying. Long live goodreaders!


message 43: by Paul (new) - rated it 3 stars

Paul Secor Stoner is a beautifully written book but, in the end, that's not enough.


message 44: by Rod (new) - rated it 3 stars

Rod Paul wrote: "Stoner is a beautifully written book but, in the end, that's not enough."

Thank you!


message 45: by Paul (new) - rated it 3 stars

Paul Secor Rod wrote: "Paul wrote: "Stoner is a beautifully written book but, in the end, that's not enough."

Thank you!"


We're probably fighting a losing battle, Rod, but keep up the good fight.


message 46: by Fionnuala (new) - added it

Fionnuala Paul wrote: "Rod wrote: "Paul wrote: "Stoner is a beautifully written book but, in the end, that's not enough."

Thank you!"

We're probably fighting a losing battle, Rod, but keep up the good fight."


I didn't even think it was beautifully written...so my battle is completely lost!


message 47: by Rod (last edited Aug 30, 2014 01:47PM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Rod Fionnuala wrote: "Paul wrote: "Rod wrote: "Paul wrote: "Stoner is a beautifully written book but, in the end, that's not enough."

Thank you!"

We're probably fighting a losing battle, Rod, but keep up the good fight."

I didn't even think it was beautifully written...so my battle is completely lost!"


I'm with Fionnuala here. I would characterize it as "well written" but little more. I think people overlook the book's problems because of how it gets to them emotionally; it really does have an emotional impact. I wept at the end, it really got to me. Like Paul says, though, that isn't enough. I couldn't get over the fact that throughout Williams breaks the "show, don't tell" rule egregiously. Now, it's a rule that's meant to be broken because you can't show everything, but all he does it tell and tell and tell at every turn; how the characters feel, what they thinking and how you should feel about it. It really turned me off, but I thought its good qualities were enough for me to rate it 3 stars.

Since I'm dumping on Williams, I will say that Stoner is at least better than Butcher's Crossing, which to me was just dull as all hell. I'll vouch for the quality of Augustus, though, which I thought was phenomenal when I read it. It's been a while, so maybe if I read it now it wouldn't hold up as well, but I will steadfastly maintain that it's by far his best work. I'm glad it's now out on NYRB as well, so it finally might have the audience it deserves.


message 48: by Fionnuala (new) - added it

Fionnuala Rod wrote: "...I think people overlook the book's problems because of how it gets to them emotionally..."

Thanks, Rod, that kind of helps me understand its appeal.
Interesting to see your reaction to his other writing and that the book you prefer, Augustus, is based on an historical figure rather than being a complete(?) fiction like Stoner with all the temptations and traps which go with creating all the elements of the story yourself, temptations to include people you've known and events you've experienced together with the feelings those peolple and events might have aroused in you. I felt there had been a real Hollis Lomax in Williams' life somewhere, sometime...


Cecily It's a shame you didn't like this, but you explain your reasons well, though some of them are not negatives for me (the flatness, for instance) and others merely add to its complexity and power for me (Lomax and Walker).

I would quibble with a few of the less subjective points in your spoilered section, but I'll settle for saying that I think there are heavy hints about what made Edith the way she is, and that to have been more explicit would have made it a different sort of book, back when it was published.


message 50: by Fionnuala (new) - added it

Fionnuala Cecily wrote: "It's a shame you didn't like this, but you explain your reasons well, though some of them are not negatives for me (the flatness, for instance) and others merely add to its complexity and power for me (Lomax and Walker)..."

When I read the many glowing reviews of this book, Cecily, I noticed how much Stoner, the character, appealed to everyone, how they sympathized with him enormously, and their response seemed based on that emotional tug. I can see why, and in a sense, it wasn't with William Stoner that I had the biggest issue, it was with John Williams, the author, the creator of this hugely beleaguered character and his host of evil enemies. It was with Williams I disagreed, for his narrow focus, for the opportunities he missed because of the same narrow focus, basically, for something I felt was missing in his writerly craft.


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