Chrissie's Reviews > Pope Joan
Pope Joan
by
by

NO SPOILERS!!!
In conclusion, having completed this novel, having struggled through to the end, I can say I did not like it. I didn't like it from the start to the end. When I voice this opinion, I am obviously in the minority. I do appreciate that the author concluded with an informative author's note, which supports her belief that Pope Joan did exist, between the acknowledged Pope Leo IV and Pope Benedict III. I found her arguments undeniably convincing. I do not know whether Pope Joan existed or not, but I find the author's points valid. Before I can say Pope Joan didn't exist, I would need to have several questions answered.
However whether Pope Joan existed or not is irrelevant to how I judge this book. I did not like how the story was told. The characters were two-dimensional. There were the good guys and the bad guys. I vehemently disliked the cinematic tone characteristic of the entire novel. It was ridiculously romantic and melodramatic. Rarely do I so dislike a book. I have said enough. Below you will see what has annoyed me as I read through the book. I do not need to reapeat these criticisms. It is not the description of the era and the historical events that I am complaiming about. I am complaining about how the story was told. I would not choose to read another book by this author, but she doesn't need me since many others adore her writing.
***
Through page 204: I have read further. One aspect of the book that I think the author handles well is the description of the era - the religious beliefs, historical events, soothsayers, celebration of feast and market gatherings. What I am enjoying is the author's descriptive abilities, her description of the time and place. The struggles between the Saxons, Franks and Norsemen and between pagan and early Christian beliefs are included in the story. This I appreciate, but even here the depiction is rather cinematic. The reader cannot help but grasp the trends of the era.
Through page 148: Maybe my mood is off, but I find Pope Joan disappointing. I find the characters simplistic and feminism emphasized to an extreme. It also feels like a romance novel. And Luke, he is a wolf for heaven's sake. A wolf cub will not behave as he is portrayed in this novel. It is too cute. John(Joan's brother) is too stupid and jealous and bad, while Joan is so smart and forgiving and brave. You can stack the characters in two groups - the good guys or the bad guys.
Here is an excerpt about the white wolf cub, Luke. You judge. Isn't this meant for the movies?
She looked at Luke. "Will it work, Luke? Will it be enough to save me?"
He titlted his head inquisitively, as if trying to understand. It was a mannerism that always amused Gerold. Joan hugged the white wolf, burying her face in the thick fur ringing his neck. (page 142)
A movie has been made. Perfect!
Maybe it will improve. I do not give up easily. Oh, I have had bad luck lately. This will be my third "not so hot" book in a row.
***
Through page 98: I know this is a minor quibble but it is irritating. How can one put a cover on a book that completely missrepresents the person's appearance? In the book Joan has practically white-blonde hair, deep set eyes of a grry-green color and a thick fringe of eyelashes. Look at the cover on my book! How can you put this cover on this book?
It is a fun read, but I feel the primary message is feministic. On every page you are confronted with how horribly and unjustly women are treated. I know this is an accurate description of the times, but the message doesn't have to be pounded into our skulls.
So far the characters are rather simplistic. Joan is so curious and intelligent. John, her older brother is so unscholarly. Joan's father is such a missguided religious fanatic and her Mom, such a "Mom", loving her child deeply but also rather selfishly. I planned to just read this for fun. Stop being so critical, Chrissie!
Maybe I shoule read Mistress of the Vatican: The True Story of Olimpia Maidalchini: The Secret Female Pope next.
In conclusion, having completed this novel, having struggled through to the end, I can say I did not like it. I didn't like it from the start to the end. When I voice this opinion, I am obviously in the minority. I do appreciate that the author concluded with an informative author's note, which supports her belief that Pope Joan did exist, between the acknowledged Pope Leo IV and Pope Benedict III. I found her arguments undeniably convincing. I do not know whether Pope Joan existed or not, but I find the author's points valid. Before I can say Pope Joan didn't exist, I would need to have several questions answered.
However whether Pope Joan existed or not is irrelevant to how I judge this book. I did not like how the story was told. The characters were two-dimensional. There were the good guys and the bad guys. I vehemently disliked the cinematic tone characteristic of the entire novel. It was ridiculously romantic and melodramatic. Rarely do I so dislike a book. I have said enough. Below you will see what has annoyed me as I read through the book. I do not need to reapeat these criticisms. It is not the description of the era and the historical events that I am complaiming about. I am complaining about how the story was told. I would not choose to read another book by this author, but she doesn't need me since many others adore her writing.
***
Through page 204: I have read further. One aspect of the book that I think the author handles well is the description of the era - the religious beliefs, historical events, soothsayers, celebration of feast and market gatherings. What I am enjoying is the author's descriptive abilities, her description of the time and place. The struggles between the Saxons, Franks and Norsemen and between pagan and early Christian beliefs are included in the story. This I appreciate, but even here the depiction is rather cinematic. The reader cannot help but grasp the trends of the era.
Through page 148: Maybe my mood is off, but I find Pope Joan disappointing. I find the characters simplistic and feminism emphasized to an extreme. It also feels like a romance novel. And Luke, he is a wolf for heaven's sake. A wolf cub will not behave as he is portrayed in this novel. It is too cute. John(Joan's brother) is too stupid and jealous and bad, while Joan is so smart and forgiving and brave. You can stack the characters in two groups - the good guys or the bad guys.
Here is an excerpt about the white wolf cub, Luke. You judge. Isn't this meant for the movies?
She looked at Luke. "Will it work, Luke? Will it be enough to save me?"
He titlted his head inquisitively, as if trying to understand. It was a mannerism that always amused Gerold. Joan hugged the white wolf, burying her face in the thick fur ringing his neck. (page 142)
A movie has been made. Perfect!
Maybe it will improve. I do not give up easily. Oh, I have had bad luck lately. This will be my third "not so hot" book in a row.
***
Through page 98: I know this is a minor quibble but it is irritating. How can one put a cover on a book that completely missrepresents the person's appearance? In the book Joan has practically white-blonde hair, deep set eyes of a grry-green color and a thick fringe of eyelashes. Look at the cover on my book! How can you put this cover on this book?
It is a fun read, but I feel the primary message is feministic. On every page you are confronted with how horribly and unjustly women are treated. I know this is an accurate description of the times, but the message doesn't have to be pounded into our skulls.
So far the characters are rather simplistic. Joan is so curious and intelligent. John, her older brother is so unscholarly. Joan's father is such a missguided religious fanatic and her Mom, such a "Mom", loving her child deeply but also rather selfishly. I planned to just read this for fun. Stop being so critical, Chrissie!
Maybe I shoule read Mistress of the Vatican: The True Story of Olimpia Maidalchini: The Secret Female Pope next.
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Reading Progress
December 12, 2009
– Shelved
December 12, 2009
– Shelved as:
hf
December 12, 2009
– Shelved as:
kirkus
December 12, 2009
– Shelved as:
bio
December 12, 2009
– Shelved as:
italy
July 6, 2011
–
Started Reading
July 10, 2011
– Shelved as:
disliked
July 10, 2011
– Shelved as:
france
July 10, 2011
– Shelved as:
religion
July 10, 2011
–
Finished Reading
Comments Showing 1-50 of 113 (113 new)
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by
Tara
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rated it 3 stars
Dec 12, 2009 10:01AM

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From what I remember, I also did not like the way the book was written, and the historical anachronisms just really got on my nerves, yuck. I know you can never completely recreate the past, but at least an author should try to be realistic, if you know what I mean.



I already changed it to one star. At the beginning of my time at GR, there were a few books that I accidentally rated too high because I was still learning the ropes, many of them I fixed, but I forgot about Pope Joan.


Gundula, nice!
And Lisa, I am so glad my review helped. Definitely cinematica and two-dimensional characters; A movie has been made. I am not surprised.
Thanks all of you!

Gundula, nice!
And Lisa, I am so glad my review helped. Definitely cinematica and two-dimensio..."
But I think even as a movie, I would not like it ...


Yeah, Umberto Eco, an academic who gives academic pomposity a brand new name ...

I guess it will be a hit.
Thank you for the helpful review. I've been undecided on this one.

A lot of people really enjoyed this book, but Chrissie and I hated it. Well, at least Chrissie finished the book, I gave up after about forty odd pages.

But I love reading your analysis, and as you know I just had a bad reaction to a book I fear is very popular...

Those of you who appreciated my review, please remember I am in the minority. You may not agree if you read the book. But thanks for your votes of confidence.



I know, outside of an occasional smack or too Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ is very civilized.



I still review on Amazon, but I do agree there's a lot of shenanigans going on there. Honeslty the reviews I've had the most trouble with have come from people who seem to have axes to grind (ties to author) or from anonymous sock puppet accounts.
Chrissie, meet Dawn. Dawn meet Chrissie :)
I love your reviews in general, Chrissie, and this one in particular. I am always "afraid" to voice a negative opinion about a "well-loved" book because I have been told what a "low-brow cretin" I am for having a different opinion. Well, I'm not in that group, or with those people anymore! Hurray for polite disagreement. :)


I have to say one good thing for Amazon, due to a brouhaha I found myself in the middle of there, Misfit sent me a life raft and pulled me out. When I shook myself free (although I do go back from time to time and dip a toe in - aka my two cents), I found my way to the civilized, entertaining and addictive world of book discussions here on GR.

But I thought Amazon had controls on who could post? With credit card confirmations and such? After a scandal in which it was discovered that many of the positive reviews were being posted by authors.
Anyway, let me mention my own caveat: for many years, Donna Woolfolk Cross and I shared the same literary agency. That literary agency unfortunately did not sell our books (well, except for a publisher in Greece) but there is a connection. Even though my co author moved on to other options, we're still on cordial terms with our former agent.

Jeanette, I am such a lousy lier I just have to speak the truth. Good you left that group, life is so much more fun over here.
And Dawn, now that we have been properly introduced, we must keep in touch! Like minded souls need to hang on to each other.
Barbara, I really have a hard time quitting a book, but actually I do sometimes. I promise, I do. Just out of some kind of perverse curiosity I want to know what the author will do with the entire book. Will there be anything I like. The funny thing was that in this book I loved the theme. Others do NOT believe in Pope Joan, but I am not so sure...... Maybe she did exist. It is not at all impossible. And I liked the way the author's note was written. True, I could have just skipped to the author's note, but I just didn't. The whole question of if she really existed is tantalizing.
You guys, meet Victoria. I can say that I read Iokaste: The Novel of the Mother-Wife of Oedipus and liked it very, very much! Remember what I just said to Jeanette, I cannot lie so I do not try! Not only is she a good author but also a wonderful friend. I wrote a review of that book and intend on reading more, when things calm down a bit here at home.
Oh and Misfit. I am always blabbing about the wonderful Kirkus reviews that are available at B&N free. Well, they have disappeared. Kirkus has changed owners and B&N is all revamped for the worse. No more free Kirkus reviews. I sent a question to B&N and got back the enlightening response that they didn't know a thing about what had happened to the Kirkus reviews. Well then how about finding out. I just asked if they would return! Now I never look at B&N any more. and they suggested a book, that wasn't good. Don't read The Free World. I was a total sucker listening to all the praise given that book.
Toodles. It is early...... am I awake?

very difficult and I bailed out since then I have avoided all books about Pope Joan and nothing I have read here makes me want to alter that stance.

Enough about me. We all have to remember that writing is a business. However, I admit that I can't understand why people finish books that they're not enjoying, or why they continue to buy novels from authors who obviously disappoint. It only rewards poor quality.

Yes, I agree. I wish I had not bought The Autobiography of Henry VIII: With Notes by His Fool, Will Somers...... The size is daunting and I have it in paperback. Have any of you read it? Tell me it is not bad? Or should I just dump it. What a waste, a brand new book. Or does somebody want to read it with me? I send you the paperback and when you have it you send me a Kindle book? Then we can talk about it...... that is an idea. Do tell me the truth. I is it so bad it is not worth opening? I gave Cleopatra by George (the same author) three stars, so it was good but could definitely have been better. Please, I need advice!
You know Victoria, I usually do not even read several books by the same author, unless I am thoroughly impressed. I usually want to taste new authors.

Eh, there's still ways around it. Yes there's a purchase/credit card requirement, but all you need is a different email, buy something and you've got a new sock-puppet account and off they can go snarking and/or hitting people with negative votes. With some authors, even if the critical reviews aren't hit with snotty comments you'll find a definite pattern of voting. All critical reviews will pick up the same # of negative votes and the gushy reviews with pick up the exact # of positive votes. I'm not the only one who notices either, and after a while people tend to not want to read that author 'cause you'll know you are going to get them just for speaking your piece.
I know in the grand scheme of life those votes aren't really that important, but in the new ranking system negative votes can really impact your reviewer ranking.
There are also that review attacks that come from friends/business connections of authors. Those authors immediately go on my never ever read list not even if it's free from the library.
Chrissie, I read the H8 book a few years ago and recall liking it a lot.
Victoria, interesting about the skids GR puts on authors and I'm glad to see it. The Amazon discussions are virtual ghost towns because of the author spamming going on there.




Yes, I agree. I wish I had not bought [book:The Autobiogra..."
Chrissy, I read it years ago too. I remember I enjoyed it and do agree with Beth about Boleyn's portrayal. What I enjoyed was seeing him grow from a boy, to a virile young man, to an obscene bloated version of his former self, both in body and mind. George gives you insight into the decisions and choices he made and how he turned into the version of him most remembered today (well, until 'The Tudors' series anyway). I think it was a fairly even handed treatment of Henry, she didn't make try to make excuses for his actions, maybe some of the others remember this better.
I'm sorry I can't help you with the trade.
And Dawn, now that we have been properly introduced, we must keep in touch! Like minded souls need to hang on to each other.
I totally agree!


I trust you guys and any friend of Misfit is my friend too, but I can't just send this book to Ms X and hope they send me the Kindle in return. If you hear of someone you know who does want to read it, please tell them my idea.
I know, why don't I just go and buy the Kindle?! Cheapo me. I cannot do this with all the books I have sitting here next to me!



I am very very lucky to live in a county with a well funded library.
