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All Around Dickens Year > American Notes for General Circulation Vol. 2 (hosted by John)

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message 1: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Mar 01, 2025 10:36AM) (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8311 comments Mod
AMERICAN NOTES FOR GENERAL CIRCULATION 2nd thread

ROUTE MAP:



"Charles Dickens - Travels in America and Canada 1842" - from David Perdue's Charles Dickens Page


message 2: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Mar 27, 2025 05:48AM) (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8311 comments Mod
Here is the second thread for American Notes For General Circulation which is hosted by John until 28th March.

JOHN'S SCHEDULE

VOLUME 1 (chapters 1 - 8) LINK HERE to the previous thread

VOLUME TWO

March 1: Chapter The First (or chapter 9) LINK HERE

March 3: Chapter The Second (or chapter 10) LINK HERE

March 6: Chapter The Third (or chapter 11) LINK HERE

March 9: Chapter The Fourth (or chapter 12) LINK HERE

March 12: Chapter The Fifth (or chapter 13) LINK HERE

March 15: Chapter The Sixth (or chapter 14) LINK HERE

March 18: Chapter The Seventh (or chapter 15) LINK HERE

March 21: Chapter The Eighth (or chapter 16) LINK HERE

March 24 Chapter The Ninth (or chapter 17) LINK HERE

March 27: Chapter The Tenth (or chapter 18), Appendixes, (3, or Postscript plus 2 appendixes) and Final Thoughts LINK HERE

John says:

"American Notes has three appendixes, but the total number of pages for all three is only about seven. I think we can read Chapter the Tenth and review the appendixes at the same time we have a final discussion. I also encourage everyone to review the Endnotes if available with your edition. I have found the Endnotes to be both illuminating and helpful."

LINKS ARE ONGOING.

Please note that in some editions (e.g. both of mine and the Gutenberg one) the entire piece is in one volume. Therefore I have put the alterative numbering system in brackets afterwards.


message 3: by John (new)

John (jdourg) | 284 comments VOLUME TWO
Chapter The First

A Night Steamer on the Potomac River. A Virginia Road, and a Black Driver. Richmond. Baltimore. The Harrisburg Mail, and a Glimpse of the City. A Canal Boat.

"I beseech the reader's company in a new volume," writes Dickens at the end of Volume One. And thus we begin Volume Two.

They begin by steamboat to reach Richmond. Dickens for the first time in American Notes mentions his "faithful secretary" -- a man named George Washington Putnam, who traveled with Dickens from Boston for the entire journey.

The steamboat ride to Fredericksburg is well described by Dickens. He finds himself in the men's cabin with about forty other men draped on chairs, sofas, and the floor. It is a relatively uneventful trip -- they pass silently by Mount Vernon.

In Fredericksburg, they take a group of carriages south to Richmond. Dickens describes the mannerisms and words of his black carriage driver and seem to have fun noting it. He does note that the farmland around Fredericksburg appears to be worn out by too much planting season after season. This is tobacco country.

The railroad ride from Fredericksburg to Richmond has one of the most harrowing scenes in American Notes. He see a slave woman with her children who have been sold off, leaving behind a father and a husband. "The children cried the whole way and the mother was misery's picture."

The stay in Richmond was not particularly pleasant because slavery was there and everything was made gloomy by it. They return to Washington and then on to Baltimore. Of all the hotels Dickens stayed in, he found Barnum's in Baltimore to be the most comfortable. He finds Baltimore a bustling capital city and visits another prison -- the Maryland State Penitentiary, which he terms "good." He mentions two cases associated with this prison.

From Baltimore he proceeds by rail to York, Pennsylvania -- which is not far from Gettysburg -- and then on to Harrisburg, the capital of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. He visits another prison, but one without an inmate yet. He mentions the beauty of the Susquehanna River and has dinner with legislators from Pennsylvania.


message 4: by John (last edited Mar 01, 2025 01:48PM) (new)

John (jdourg) | 284 comments Of all the chapters so far, this one to me seems the most on the move. We have steamboats, carriages, and railroads. We see a brief stay in Richmond -- he goes no further south -- and then back northward and finally westward. I do believe the discomfort from slavery -- it is apparent in the prose -- compelled his decision to only go as far as Richmond.

I have been to York, Gettysburg, and Harrisburgh, and have seen the Susquehanna. This is pretty country to this day and I imagine it was even prettier in 1842.


message 5: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Mar 03, 2025 11:31AM) (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8311 comments Mod
Peter's post

I found the description of the Black family being separated heartbreaking. I imagine Dickens wanted to be much more vocal about what he and Catherine had witnessed. He must have wrestled with his conscious about what else to say and how to say it.


message 6: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Mar 03, 2025 11:33AM) (new)

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John's post

Peter wrote: "I found the description of the Black family being separated heartbreaking. I imagine Dickens wanted to be much more vocal about what he and Catherine had witnessed. He must have wrestled with his c..."

He is also quite brilliant in juxtaposing the misery of what he described alongside the fact that someone else on the train is able to “pursue life, liberty, and happiness.� I do find that Dickens is unsparing yet is able to do it in measured prose. This, I believe, gives room to the reader to form opinions.


message 7: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Mar 03, 2025 11:33AM) (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8311 comments Mod
Nancy's post

Peter wrote: "I found the description of the Black family being separated heartbreaking. I imagine Dickens wanted to be much more vocal about what he and Catherine had witnessed. He must have wrestled with his c..."

I wonder why Dickens did not mention (or I have not seen it in his books) the history of England's slave ownership.
An article I found: , I found this bit of history: British involvement in the transatlantic slave trade began in 1562, and by the 1730s Britain was the world’s biggest slave-trading nation. Dickens will write about that in the chapter about slavery. I have not read that yet.


message 8: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Mar 03, 2025 11:34AM) (new)

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John's post

Shirley (stampartiste) wrote: "I have been quite startled with Chapter 8. Dickens is no longer the diplomat he was in earlier chapters. He didn't mince words when criticizing what he found wanting in the States:

Granted, spitti..."


Shirley, I enjoyed Putnam’s piece. I must say he reminds me of a technical writer who has written a manual � just straightforward, basic, factual. I remember having a class in college on technical writing. And Putnam’s narrative reminded me of some of the ways technical writing was taught.


message 9: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Mar 03, 2025 11:34AM) (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8311 comments Mod
Hi Nancy,

We have to remember how topical American Notes for General Circulation was.

Nobody denies that Britain had a shameful history of slavery. But it was in the past. Britain had abolished slavery a long time before Charles Dickens visited America in 1842. It had been made illegal 35 years earlier. The most reliable source of this is the UK Parliament website
where you will find the complete legal history.

There were campaigns to abolish slave trade in Britain from just after the time you mention. (Before 1776 though, this was many North Americans' history too.) In 1787, the Society for the Abolition of the Slave Trade was established in Britain, whose purpose was to campaign for the slave trade to be brought to an end. In 1789 William Wilberforce began to introduce anti-slavery motions in Parliament. He continued to do so until 1807, when the British Parliament introduced the Abolition of the Slave Trade Act. This ended the buying and selling of enslaved people within the British Empire, but it took another 30 years before slavery was abolished in most British colonies.

All through the piece Charles Dickens assumes that his readers know the status quo in England. You'll have noticed this before. He does not explain his comparisons in detail, e.g. we can deduce that he hates the stoves on board ship and train, and other places he would consider almost outdoors, as England did not have them. To him the air in these cabins would feel close and stuffy. He also does not mention names, as I noted. Readers of the time knew them, but we have to look them up (and John often does that for us with the main ones, thank you!)

I'm sure John will take us through the chapter. But for Charles Dickens as an Englishman, although he knew it in theory, actually observing the reality of slavery, which his own country had made illegal 35 years earlier came as a terrible shock. He was excited to get to know what was considered the "social experiment" of America, and hoped to find progressive, openminded and new ways of doing things.


message 10: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Mar 03, 2025 11:35AM) (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8311 comments Mod
John's post

Barnum’s City Hotel in Baltimore was the favorite of all the places that Dickens stayed on this trip.

It was built in 1825 by Daniel Barnum. If the name sounds familiar, it might be because it is the same family as the Barnum & Bailey Circus. My book edition states it was built in 1819 and named for Phineas T. Barnum.




message 11: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Mar 02, 2025 03:12PM) (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8311 comments Mod
What a contrast we have between the carriage ride from Fredericksburg to south of Richmond, which Charles Dickens describes with such great humour - he really has an ear for an accent. But then as John says, we have one of the most harrowing passages, describing how a black mother and child have been sold, and wrenched from the family.

Here is Marcus Stone's later illustration, where the new owner of the woman is peering through the window of the carriage to make sure his "cargo" is alright 😢


Illustration by Marcus Stone 1913


message 12: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Mar 03, 2025 11:35AM) (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8311 comments Mod
Mary Lou's post



This is a link showing many of the mansions along Front Street in Harrisburg. My daughter lives just on the opposite side of the river, and I've visited two of these old homes, now museums. I didn't know about the mulberry, and look forward to finding that site some warm spring day.

Aside from the things you all have already mentioned, I'm struck by just how crowded all the forms of transportation are, and - coming from this celebrity culture - surprised that Dickens and his entourage did not have private carriages, etc. It was startling to imagine him sitting on the outside of the carriage in the pouring rain - in the winter! - while others were crammed inside like sardines. How uncomfortable it all must have been! And what a burden for those horses!

And while I'm feeling pity, I was both amused and empathetic as Dickens described the way the poor man looked dolefully at his new carpet when he realized he'd have to let a bunch of tobacco chewing legislators into his parlor to pay their respects to the famous author.


message 13: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Mar 03, 2025 11:35AM) (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8311 comments Mod
Mary Lou's post

If you ever visit Fredericksburg, there are many wonderful places to visit. But what you might miss if you aren't looking for it as you're walking in the historic area, is a concrete block on a sidewalk. This was the part of town where slave auctions took place, and the block was where the slaves stood to be seen by the interested buyers. For me, it's more evocative than most other museums exhibits and historic sites that attempt to tell the story of slavery.


message 14: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Mar 03, 2025 11:36AM) (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8311 comments Mod
Mary Lou's post

Correction - I just looked it up and apparently the auction block in Fredericksburg was removed. I think this is a shame. We can't pretend history didn't happen, and having the block in its original location surely reached many more people than having it sit in a building that comparatively few visit.

Here's more info...




message 15: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Mar 03, 2025 11:36AM) (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8311 comments Mod
John's post

Mary Lou wrote: "Correction - I just looked it up and apparently the auction block in Fredericksburg was removed. I think this is a shame. We can't pretend history didn't happen, and having the block in its origina..."

Thanks Mary Lou. I have been to Fredericksburg. I do not specifically recall the downtown area, though. I did, however, visit and tour the nearby Chancellorsville Battlefield.


message 16: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Mar 03, 2025 11:36AM) (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8311 comments Mod
Nancy's post

Bionic Jean wrote: "Hi Nancy,

We have to remember how topical American Notes for General Circulation was.

Nobody denies that Britain had a shameful history of slavery. But it was in the past. Britain ..."

The reality of slavery in any part of the world is shameful, I agree


message 17: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Mar 03, 2025 11:36AM) (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8311 comments Mod
Peter's post

Mary Lou wrote: "Correction - I just looked it up and apparently the auction block in Fredericksburg was removed. I think this is a shame. We can't pretend history didn't happen, and having the block in its origina..."

Hi Mary Lou

I agree. The telling of history may often make us feel uncomfortable. And well it should. To cancel history is a greater crime than to allow us reflect upon it, and hopefully to learn from our past.


message 18: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Mar 03, 2025 11:37AM) (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8311 comments Mod
Peter's post

There are so many excellent points, thoughts, and reflections mentioned above.

When Dickens enters Canada it would be a good time to take a look and what Dickens expected to find in America and what he did find in his travels.


message 19: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Mar 03, 2025 11:37AM) (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8311 comments Mod
John's post

I think it is too bad he decided against going to Charleston. It is quite a city to this day and he may have liked it. After he left Richmond and returned to Washington briefly, he wrote the following to Forster from his hotel:

My heart is lightened as if a great load had been taken from it, when I think that we are turning our backs on this accursed and detested system. I really don't think I could have borne it any longer. It is all very well to say "be silent on the subject." They won't let you be silent. They will ask you what you think of it; and will expatiate on slavery as if it were one of the greatest blessings of mankind.


message 20: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Mar 01, 2025 02:27PM) (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8311 comments Mod
Some great posts!

John wrote: "Barnum’s City Hotel in Baltimore was the favorite of all the places that Dickens stayed on this trip ... it was built in 1819 and named for Phineas T. Barnum"

That's so interesting John, as there's another circus connection! Near the beginning of ch 9 Dickens mentions "Ducrow ... on his fiery courses" When I looked this up, I learned that Andrew Ducrow, who had just died that year (1793-1842) was a celebrated circus horseman. He was the principal equestrian performer and subsequently the co-proprietor of Astley's circus, London. We've hear a lot about that in our reads, as it was enormously popular (the first circus arena in the world) and Dickens went there regularly. Pablo Fanque, (real name William Darby) the black English circus equestrian and circus owner was enormously popular, but he wasn't to make having his London debut at Astley’s for 5 more years (1847).

There's more information and pictures about Astley's in this post LINK HERE within our read of Bleak House.


message 21: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Mar 01, 2025 02:27PM) (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8311 comments Mod
"When Dickens enters Canada it would be a good time to take a look and what Dickens expected to find in America and what he did find in his travels"

I think John already suggested we do at at the end, Peter, when we read the two appendixes. Although of course we are doing that all the time really. Whenever we read Charles Dickens's surprise, and either approval or sometimes indignation, we can deduce what he expected to find.

EDIT: Ah - (light dawns😆) - Perhaps you meant to make a break at the current border, and differentiate between his attitude to what is now 2 countries? But we have been in a bit of Canada already haven't we, so it might be tricky. I'll go along with however John wants to do it 😊


message 22: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Mar 01, 2025 02:28PM) (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8311 comments Mod
John - Thanks so much for including that extract from Charles Dickens's letter to John Forster. He must have felt relief that he could share his feelings about "this accursed and detested system" of slavery. I'm looking forward to his travelling to a different state, where they already have different views.

I really liked this clever sentence:

"whenever an Englishman would cry ‘All right!� an American cries ‘Go ahead!� which is somewhat expressive of the national character of the two countries."

He is still managing to keep his optimism about America, despite his present despair! 😊


message 23: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Mar 03, 2025 11:37AM) (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8311 comments Mod
Julie's post

John wrote: "He did not note any tobacco chewing and spitting in Boston or New York. If it did not happen there, I am sure that helped with the positive impression he found, especially with Boston."

There is that point in Chapter 7 on the train: "my attention was attracted to a remarkable appearance issuing from the windows of the gentleman’s car immediately in front of us, which I supposed for some time was occasioned by a number of industrious persons inside, ripping open feather-beds, and giving the feathers to the wind. At length it occurred to me that they were only spitting, which was indeed the case; though how any number of passengers which it was possible for that car to contain, could have maintained such a playful and incessant shower of expectoration, I am still at a loss to understand: notwithstanding the experience in all salivatory phenomena which I afterwards acquired."

As nasty as it is, I found the tobacco-chewing and Dickens's horror at it to be utterly fascinating, along with his talk of the pigs on the New York streets, as presenting a picture of what it would be like to be in a public place at the time, in a way that we don't typically get in historical accounts or historical fiction. It would seem to require a contemporary viewer.


message 24: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Mar 03, 2025 11:38AM) (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8311 comments Mod
Julie's post

Mary Lou wrote: "Despite what many today seem to think, the worst of politics has been with us for centuries. I was not surprised to read his negative view towards certain politicians and the fact that their bad behavior was overlooked by their peers and journalists alike in the interest of advancing an agenda. Nothing is new."

Along with Mary Lou and Shirley, I found it something of a comfort to have this reminder that corruption, self-interest, and dishonest propaganda aren't necessarily on the increase. Although I do worry that with the internet and AI and so forth, we have media and surveillance now that they didn't have in the past, so the sins that have always been with us are magnified. Let's hope the virtues that have always been with us can be magnified, too.

I am a little behind but I enjoyed the Washington chapter so much that I will probably assign it for one of my classes next year. The period detail was stunning, and especially I enjoyed seeing what felt noteworthy to Dickens in the context of the times--even little details as for instance no police officers around to supervise the loading or unloading of carriages at the levee. The circumstances he describes are by turns both horrifying and hysterically funny. Nobody has more range than Dickens.


message 25: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Mar 01, 2025 02:39PM) (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8311 comments Mod
Phew! I think this thread is up to date now.

John (and I) thought it would be best to have 2 threads for the two volumes, so since the second volume started today, I have posted the concluding thread.

Sadly GR options are limited, and will not allow post to be "moved". So I have copied everyone's comments into this new thread verbatim. (26 today! What a fabulous read) I hope it's clear - I tried to preserve the html (italics etc) and links by redoing them, and checked it, but please do point out if I've made any slips.

I'll delete the duplicate posts on the first thread tomorrow, and reopen this one now. I've put the map of the route John linked to for us as the cover.


Shirley (stampartiste) | 465 comments Bionic Jean wrote: "Phew! I think this thread is up to date now.
Sadly GR options are limited, and will not allow post to be "moved". So I have copied everyone's comments into this new thread verbatim. (26 today! What a fabulous read)..."


Oh my goodness, so much work, Jean! Thank you for all the work you put into these reads!


Shirley (stampartiste) | 465 comments I wanted to ask if Charles Dickens had had help pre-arrranging his travel plans (like a modern-day travel agent). The logistics of this trip are mind-boggling!

It also just dawned on me what a trooper Catherine must have been to endure this trip. If it was bad for Dickens, I can't imagine how hard it must have been on poor Catherine, who was accustomed to the better things in life. Can you imagine her riding in that overcrowded carriage when it was struggling up the inclines, racing down the other side by pure momentum, slogging through the mud, and crossing primitive wooden bridges? How many times she must have wondered if she would ever see her children again!

I know that Dickens was not as pleasantly surprised with America as I think he hoped he would have been, but I hope he took it into account that America was a relatively new country that was rapidly spreading out over a continent, so it would not have had the established modes of transportation that an old Europe enjoyed.

As Dickens travels on, I find that his criticisms outweigh his positive observations of the land and its people. Was he picking at all the scabs of the States because he had become disillusioned with the image he had formed in his mind of what he thought he would find?

What were Americans' response to this travelogue?

So many questions are coming to mind right now.


message 28: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8311 comments Mod
You're welcome Shirley, but John is doing the brunt of this one! I look forward to answers to your excellent questions.


Shirley (stampartiste) | 465 comments Bionic Jean wrote: "You're welcome Shirley, but John is doing the brunt of this one! I look forward to answers to your excellent questions."

Yes, indeed, Jean! I did not mean to take away from all of the work that John has put into this study of American Notes! His summaries, specific discussions and links have been invaluable. In this instance, I was referring to the tedious mechanics of creating a new thread and transferring each individual comment. 😳. Thank you both so much!


message 30: by John (last edited Mar 02, 2025 03:19AM) (new)

John (jdourg) | 284 comments Shirley (stampartiste) wrote: "I wanted to ask if Charles Dickens had had help pre-arrranging his travel plans (like a modern-day travel agent). The logistics of this trip are mind-boggling!

It also just dawned on me what a tro..."


Shirley, good questions. From what his great-great-great granddaughter Lucinda Hawksley has written, Dickens began planning his trip in 1841. He was intrigued by the idea of visiting the United States for several reasons. One, he loved travel and adventure. Two, he heard his books were loved in the United States. And three, given he received no income from books printed in the United States, he hoped a visit would further the idea of international copyright laws.

Dickens received advice from his American friend Washington Irving on the logistics of a visit, and we can assume his secretary (George Washington Putnam), who was an American, helped guide the journey from Boston and on. I would think you would need a travel agency or agent for such a trip, but I have never heard one mentioned. Dickens pored over maps, wrote to and talked with others, and cobbled together this journey.


Shirley (stampartiste) | 465 comments John~ Thank you for the information about the planning of this trip. It was interesting about Washington Irving, because I thought Dickens had only met him once he came to the US. I need to find out more about the rift between them and the reconciliation of their friendship.

It appears then that George Washington Putnam was involved before Dickens' arrival, so he would have been the one to arrange all of the accommodations and modes of transportation. I would think it still had to have been a monumental task as communications for the arrangements would only have been as good and reliable as what Dickens experienced in his travels. I looked it up, and the telegraph as a viable communication method did not come into being until after Dickens' visit. So communication, where available, would have been by horse, rail and waterways. With the exception of pockets of civilization, America was still a very primitive country at this time.


message 32: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Mar 02, 2025 10:22AM) (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8311 comments Mod
Shirley - yes, I did understand and agree - I probably didn't put it very well ... 😊 thanks John.

I had been thinking George Dolby would have been the one to arrange everything, but of course that was Charles Dickens's insanely demanding schedule of reading tours and his second tour of America in 1867 that I am remembering reading about in John Forster's detailed bio.

George Dolby also wrote Charles Dickens As I Knew Him: The Story of the Reading Tours in Britain and North America 1866-1870, which I have and may be worth a look by Dickensians! some time in the future.


message 33: by John (last edited Mar 03, 2025 12:02PM) (new)

John (jdourg) | 284 comments VOLUME TWO
Chapter The Second

Some Further Account of the Canal-Boat, its Domestic Economy, and its Passengers. Journey to Pittsburgh across the Allegheny Mountains

"At about six o'clock all the small tables were put together to form one long table and everybody sat down to tea, coffee, bread, butter, salmon, shad, liver, steak, potatoes, pickles, ham, chops, black puddings, and sausages." Thus another boat journey begins this chapter. Dickens is traveling northerly from Baltimore to Pennsylvania in order to reach Harrisburgh and Pittsburgh.

Dickens notes the usage in America of the word "fix." It has man different meanings. From making sure a bottle of wine is properly fixed, to having your luggage fixed, to fixing the tables, and on to fixing "God Almighty's vittles."

The boat they travel on does not sound comfortable. A low roof will, in his words, basically give you a haircut. It seems crowded and dank and he has to use a public comb and hair brush and a tin water basin with dirty water from the canal.

They travel on the canal as far as the Alleghany Mountains and have to transfer to carriages. Dickens described a man from Mississippi being annoyed because, it would seem, the owners of the carriages charged more for one line of carriages but still mixed every up on them. Sort of like paying for First Class, but being stuck in Economy on a plane. The man uses the word Down Easters and Johnny Cakes to say that he does not readily accept the annoyance as people from New England might.

They reach Harrisburgh and have a brief stay before taking a train through the mountains to reach Pittsburgh. He describes a nerve-wracking mountain crossing: "Occasionally the rails are laid upon the extreme verge of a giddy precipice; and looking down from the carriage window, the traveler gazes sheer down, without a stone or crap of fence between the mountain depths below."

Dickens finds thet Pittsburgh is similar to Birmingham (well, maybe not). It has a great quantity of smoke, but is beautifully situated on the Alleghany River. They spend three days tarrying there before leaving. He notes that the boat to Cincinnati leaves on April 1, so they are winding down the month of March.


message 34: by John (last edited Mar 02, 2025 06:24PM) (new)

John (jdourg) | 284 comments I found the mountain journey by rail to be a little scary. Imagine a train from 1842 crossing rickety tracks with nothing below but a deep valley. He noted it to be "dreaded for its dangers."

I also noted that with the exception of hills described in Massachusetts, we are entering mountains now. To reach Cincinnati from Pittsburgh does requires crossing the Appalachians, which basically run from Georgia to Canada. I have done the drive by car to Cincinnati from the east and it is a lot of up and down in order to pass through the range.

For clarification purposes, the Alleghany Mountains that Dickens mentioned are part of the larger mountain range called the Appalachians.




message 35: by John (last edited Mar 02, 2025 06:17PM) (new)

John (jdourg) | 284 comments I also enjoyed the reference to Johnny Cakes, though I never knew it as an expression for a New Englander. I only knew it as corn meal cakes, likely cooked on a griddle and served with tea for breakfast. My step-grandfather, who was from Indiana and grew up on a farm, enjoyed them, but he just referred to them as cornbread.


Shirley (stampartiste) | 465 comments I LOVED Chapter 10! We have the old humorous Charles Dickens back with us. I wonder what happened earlier, or what changed now (perhaps getting away from the slave states?). I thought it was so funny how he found humor in situations he previously wrote as unbearable. Attitude is everything! This bit: "And yet despite these oddities--and even they had, for me at least, a humor of their own--there was much in this mode of traveling which I heartily enjoyed at the time, and look back upon with great pleasure. Even the running up, bare-necked, at five o'clock in the morning, from the stained cabin to the dirty deck; scooping up the icy water, plunging one's head into it, and drawing it out all fresh and glowing with the cold; was a good thing." The difference in his tone had me laughing with him.

And then there was this that really made me laugh: "Pittsburg is like Birmingham in England; at least, its townspeople say so. Setting aside the streets, the shops, the houses, wagons, factories, public buildings, and population, perhaps it may be. 😂 Dickens was on a roll in this chapter.

And adding to Dickens' many uses of the word "fix", I might add another one that's just part of our vocabulary here in the South: "Well, I'm fixin' to go grab a bite to eat, so I'd better stop while I'm ahead." LOL


message 37: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Mar 03, 2025 12:11PM) (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8311 comments Mod
I haven't read today's chapter 2 (10) yet, but am looking forward to it enormously after reading your comments, John and Shirley and am so glad Mr. Dickens is no longer out of sorts!

ADMIN: (Just to add, it occurred to me in the middle of the night (Dickens wasn't the only one who has insomnia 🙄) that moving part of one day's comments means that if anyone searches for theirs within all their comments, it won't come up, even though it is all there! Eeek - sorry about that and do please repost it in this thread yourself if you like, and of course I'll then delete my copy.)


Shirley (stampartiste) | 465 comments Jean, I just did an experiment, and I think you can stop worrying about the two threads (all insomniacs, raise your hand, 🙋‍♀️�). I typed my name into the “search discussion posts� box, and all of my comments came up from both threads. I think everything’s good.


message 39: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Mar 03, 2025 02:05PM) (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8311 comments Mod
Thanks Shirley, but I think you posted afterwards, didn't you, except for your post about ch 8, which stayed where it was.

(I think like Dickens, insomniacs' brains just don't stop whirring at night, though in my case it's mostly with rubbish!)


message 40: by Sue (new)

Sue | 1096 comments So glad to see that others have chapters numbered as I do, 1 through 18. No volumes one and two in my copy. I’m not quite up to date yet but getting there.

I thought that description of the carriage ride, almost like a wagon train of carriages, was brilliantly done. A real “you are there� moment.


message 41: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8311 comments Mod
He does have that sense of immediacy doesn't he Sue? It feels so fresh, as if a friend is telling you about their travels, rather than a dry travelogue.

John - Do you know when the 2 volumes dated from?


message 42: by John (last edited Mar 03, 2025 02:56PM) (new)

John (jdourg) | 284 comments This is an interesting question about the volumes. My edition is a Penguin Classics Edition, published in 2000 with an introduction by Patricia Ingham, a Fellow at Saint Anne’s College.

I am surprised that some editions do not have two volumes because Dickens himself writes that he is ending Volume One and beginning Volume Two.


message 43: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Mar 03, 2025 03:03PM) (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8311 comments Mod
Yes, it's very odd! Mine from the library is a Penguin edition too, the one from 1972 - this one American Notes for General Circulation American Notes for General Circulation (Penguin English Library) by Charles Dickens . Nothing about volumes in the notes (editors on the book page). I'm not sure which edition the Gutenberg is, but that's in one volume too. Tomorrow I'll look at my Heron edition, which usually follows the Oxford ones.


message 44: by John (new)

John (jdourg) | 284 comments This is worthy of research and I will see what I can find. My inclination is that Dickens himself must have felt two volumes is appropriate because he states he is starting the next volume. It is odd that all publishers would not follow on that.


message 45: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Mar 03, 2025 03:24PM) (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8311 comments Mod
I agree John! It sounds as though that was the original, doesn't it? And my guess would be that it was reinstated by Penguin for authenticity.

I'll be interested to see what you can unearth. My 4th edition is the one within the Delphi edition of complete works on kindle (and this is the one I read daily, as I can expand the font). That is in one volume too!


message 46: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Mar 03, 2025 03:42PM) (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8311 comments Mod
John wrote: "he states he is starting the next volume ..."

It's likely there's a good reason for Charles Dickens to make a point of saying this. American Notes for General Circulation as published is, after all, nowhere near as long as his middle novels, which are often published in 2 volumes for ease of use. So here's my current theory at this point.

The first volume, apart from the very first - comic - chapter was a fairly objective, journalist's recording of places and people. But increasingly it has begun to move towards a personal viewpoint. Chapter 8 was getting very opinionated - even though we probably agreed with him.

Perhaps as we read through vol 2 we will see more of this change of approach to the piece, as Charles Dickens brings his thoughts together, and forms more of a judgement of North America. What do you think (anyone)? Would this be a good reason for making the 2 parts separate?


message 47: by John (last edited Mar 04, 2025 03:03AM) (new)

John (jdourg) | 284 comments Jean, I would agree with that. And when I look at the original front piece that indicates Chapman & Hall it directly says “American Notes for General Circulation by Charles Dickens in Two Volumes.� Given Chapman & Hall was the original publisher, I would think that settles how it should be presented. I think possibly other, later publishers just found for publishing purposes a single volume was easier to publish? Dickens, like Shakespeare, has so many publishers to this day � almost impossible to count. And in the world of e books, I see so many different editions.

I am actually pleased about that because some of these editions have beautiful covers and new introductions. The world we live in, it seems, desires freshness and these books bring Dickens to so many. There are even two Dickens apps these days � one has his books for reading and the other one is for listening.

And to your point about the changes in Volume Two, I would like to quote the dedication:

I dedicate this book to those friends of mine in America, who, giving me a welcome I must ever gratefully and proudly remember, left my judgment free; and who, loving their country, can bear the truth, when it is told good humouredly and in a kind spirit.


message 48: by John (last edited Mar 04, 2025 01:07AM) (new)

John (jdourg) | 284 comments We’ll get to it at some point, I suppose, but I do find myself rather confounded that Washington Irving was so upset about this book. As a fellow writer, Irving should have understood that good writers are opinionated and observant. An honest book should be lauded and this is an honest book.


message 49: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Mar 04, 2025 05:06AM) (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8311 comments Mod
John wrote: "I would like to quote the dedication..."

Oh yes, it's clear from his preface - and continual comments as we read, and letters to John Forster - that he found much to approve of in North America. Like you, Charles Dickens was mystified and hurt by the negative reactions of those contemporary Americans who hated this work. (A better time to discuss this is at the end, isn't it, when no doubt we will be able to discuss this more fully with the entire work in our minds.)

Perhaps I did not make myself clear, John. I have noticed a change in his approach now, in volume 2, in that he is no longer merely recording, but beginning to form his overall thoughts. And I wondered if others had too - I think Sue also noticed a slight change a couple of chapters ago.

Charles Dickens's attitude varies from place to place, which is not surprising; ours does too, whenever we travel and compare it with home. Charles Dickens will need to have completed his journey before he can make a complete judgement. I used the word "judgement" in its dictionary definition: "the ability to make considered decisions or come to sensible conclusions" and not in any pejorative sense.


message 50: by Peter (last edited Mar 04, 2025 04:28AM) (new)

Peter | 179 comments John wrote: "Jean, I would agree with that. And when I look at the original front piece that indicates Chapman & Hall it directly says “American Notes for General Circulation by Charles Dickens in Two Volumes.�..."

As we move through ‘American Notes� there is definitely a shift in tone and methodology of writing. This awareness is both that what he expected to find in the United States he is struggling to find and, I believe, becoming aware that the book he thought he would write is not going to be easy as he believed it would be.

Originally, he thought he would travel to America and record his impressions in letters that he sent back to England. He asked his friends to keep these letters which, when he returned to England, would form one basis for his travelogue. So far, we have seen how what he expected to find he could not find as he travelled south into a place where slavery not only existed, but flourished. And so Dickens turned around and headed back North and then west. He would then turn north and enter Canada.

Even the amount of spitting seems to disorient his senses. The end product of his travels will be two fold. One will be the publication of ‘American Notes.� The other will be his next novel.


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