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Ian "Marvin" Graye's Reviews > Ulysses

Ulysses by James Joyce
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CRITIQUE:

A Flotational Theory of “Ulysses�

I made extensive Notes on my merry way through “Ulysses�.
They helped me keep on top of the task, they helped me manage my sense of intimidation.
Ultimately, “Ulysses� is not that difficult to read, the length should not deter you (TWSS).
That said, it is relatively difficult to understand.
There’s a lot going on. There’s a lot to think about, and there’s a lot I could have written.
However, when it came time to write a review, I added water to my Notes, shook them up, and waited to see what floated to the top and what sank to the bottom.
What I have written is what rose to the surface.
The rest is sediment.
What I included might be light and superficial, what I didn’t might be deep and meaningful.
This review represents my views as at August 25, 2011.
They will change as I continue to live with this novel.
If you don’t like my views, that’s OK with me, I have others.
I’m glad you do, too.

A Patchwork Quilt Theory of “Ulysses�

While reading “Ulysses�, I remembered a community art project that I imagined many years ago.
I dreamed of starting a website that would publish photos of every family or person in the world in the comfort of their own lounge room (or prison cell or sleeping bag or tent or caravan or equivalent space, if they didn’t have a lounge room).
People could show themselves surrounded by their loved ones, their prized possessions, their ephemera and the minutiae of their lives.
One photo about each family could show how our half or the other half, or perhaps lots of different fractions, actually live.
It would be a digital patchwork quilt.
“Ulysses� is an early nineteenth century patchwork quilt set in Dublin, but it is a detailed snapshot that captures everyday life, one day’s life in the world.

A Simpsons Theory of “Ulysses�

As soon as I started thinking about a family on a couch, I realised that, to understand “Ulysses�, you only need one archetypal family sitting on a couch in their lounge room, the Simpsons.
Every night at the commencement of each episode, Homer (yes, Homer) returns from his travels and travails through the dangerous streets of Springfield to be reunited with his family on the couch.
The audience also unites each evening, in front of the television, reconciled to watch the life of another family, wondering how alike or unlike their families are.

A Tricky Marxist Theory of “Ulysses� (Of the Groucho, not the Karl Variety)

I read the Penguin Modern Classics edition, which is described as the standard Random House/Bodley Head text that first appeared in 1960.
I haven’t read the annotated version yet, though I’m sure I will one Bloomsday or before.
However, I am interested in the relationship between the novel itself and the annotations.
I am interested in the way that the text itself is just part of a broader source of meaning and intent and context for the novel.
In a way, Joyce never meant the novel to be a closed text in which all of the meaning was sourced from the text alone.
Indeed, only part, possibly a small part, of its meaning and significance is apparent on the page.
This reminds me of the "Tutsi Fruitsy Ice Cream" skit with the books in the Marx Brothers film, "A Day at the Races":

To interpret and understand one book, you had to buy another, and then another, and then another.
As Groucho remarks, "It's pretty tricky when you don't know it."

A Three R’s Theory of “Ulysses� (On Writing, Reading and Rhythmatic)

Just as Joyce revolutionised the writing of fiction, he revolutionised the reading of fiction.
As well as the scope, content and boundaries of the novel.
My first reading of "Ulysses" focused on the text in front of me, especially the beauty of the language, the alliteration, the invention of new words, the aggregation of words into phrases and rhymes, the rhythm of both the spoken and the written word.
However, initially for me, this reading was manifestly inadequate to determine the meaning of the novel.
"Ulysses" derives much, if not most, of its deeper meaning from its literary and historical context.
To fully understand it, you have to go beyond the physical boundaries of the book in front of you.
So, what Joyce created was a work of art that is an amalgam of book and context.
To which I would add "interpretation" and the reading experience.
More so than in any other novel I have read, the meaning of "Ulysses" is a creative joint venture, an enterprise that is both private and public, a collective endeavour between author and reader and, equally likely, other readers.
I read on, so that I might reach a point of enlightenment, a Eureka moment, when all was clear, when I finally "got it".
Yet part of me expects that this might not have occurred yet.
One you have read “Ulysses�, the act of reading and comprehension never stops, the road goes on forever.

A Cubist Theory of “Ulysses�

Reading "Ulysses", or the ability to read "Ulysses", might just be a skill set that you acquire over time and repeated readings.
Practice makes perfect.
What originally intimidated me (and frankly continues to intimidate me) is the possibility, the risk that "Ulysses" might end up being a giant, 900 page Rubik's Cube.
I am prepared to toy with it for hundreds of hours, until one day, awake or asleep, I unlock its mysteries.
If this happens, I might be able to (re-)read it with some facility or ease.
I might be able to twist it into shape in under 10 seconds.
I might be able to forget all of the wrong moves, the wrong twists and the wrong turns that I made on my journey.
That moment hasn't happened yet.
I am striving for facility, but part of me is still dwelling in and preoccupied by the detail, the facile.
“Ulysses� is still sitting there on my shelf, now read, still Sphinx-like in all its mystery and complexity, discovered but not necessarily understood.
This review is the story of my journey of discovery.
It starts with baby steps.

A Racist Theory of “Ulysses�

"Ulysses" is an epic of three races: the Jews, the Irish and the horse races.
The Irish and the Jews are united by one God and divided by one man, Jesus Christ.
They share an Old Testament, but are separated by a New Testament.
They both live in exile, one inside their homeland, the other exiled from their homeland.
They both seek freedom, self-determination and home-rule.
In the meantime, life is a gamble.
We never know from one moment to another whether we will be winners or losers.

A Paternalist Theory of “Ulysses�

Just as “Ulysses� is concerned about remoteness from home or the Homeland, it is concerned with Fathers and Sons, the absence of Father from Son (and vice versa).
The Father will always be the most immediate connection with the Past, but the Son will always be the most immediate connection with the Future.
Every Son has a Father, but not every Father has a Son (me, for instance).
"Ulysses" is a journey within a day, but it is also symbolic of a longer and greater journey, the Journey or Cycle of Life.
Bloom is the Father (an apostate Jew), while Stephen is the Son (an Irishman), just as the Christ of Christianity was borne of a Jew.
Bloom is the body, the flesh from which the Son derived (at least symbolically), Stephen is the mind, the imagination, "the young bard".

A Stuffist Theory of “Ulysses� (The Stuff of Life )

In the gaps between the two, Father and Son, Bloom and Stephen, in the streets of Dublin, Joyce finds the Spirit, the Holy Spirit, the Stuff of Life.
"Ulysses" is about the Stuff of Life, and it is stuffed full of Life.
From birth to death and in between days.

A Feminist Theory of “Ulysses� (On and Off Women)

"Ulysses" is written by a man, from the point of view of a man.
Yet it is about women and the love that men have for women, whatever the motivation.
Men can turn their back on women, but ultimately they must return, to be whole.
Just as "Ulysses" is about the world, it is about women, the unknowability and the insatiability of women.
Bloom is intelligent, scientific and rational.
Stephen is creative.
Yet Bloom’s wife Molly is physical and sensuous.
It is possible that Bloom was originally attracted to Molly in Gibraltar, because of her dark, Jewish appearance.
However, it's more likely that he was attracted to her because of her ample figure, her breasts, her buttocks, her voluptuousness.
To him, these features must have symbolised fertility.
Yet, having borne a female child (Milly out of Molly), a son dies shortly after birth, and the quest for a male heir (at least together) ceases.
This marks the point of estrangement in their relationship.
Molly, seeking physical satisfaction, is unsatisfied.
Bloom, seeking a son, is unsatisfied.
Both of them anticipate Mick Jagger, “I can’t get no…satisfaction!�
Molly engages on a long list of liaisons, Bloom seeks out the company of prostitutes and barmaids.
Yet they remain together.
They co-exist, they co-habit, they share a bed, to the extent that Bloom even sleeps in the wetspot of Molly's infidelity.
Despite the superficial appetite for breasts and buttocks, what Bloom seems to want is a son.
This supplies a different perspective on sex.
Molly sees sex as recreation.
Yet she must carry the weight of Bloom’s mountainous expectations in her arms and on her chest.
Bloom sees sex as procreation and a continuation of himself, his journey, his culture, his legacy into the future.
To the extent that his ambitions and goals might not be achieved during his lifetime, his son will be able to continue and achieve them.
Yet Molly has not borne him a son.
In Bloom’s eyes, he has no son, therefore he has no future, he has no legacy, he has no legend, he has no immortality.
Therefore, he will not have achieved, except ephemerally.
Molly, on the other hand, is preoccupied with the moment, she is content with the ephemeral.
We don't see a lot of her relationship with Milly, we don't see how maternal she is.
She seems to be interested in her own physical pleasure (and why not).
While the physical attraction between Molly and Bloom might not have been great and the intellectual affinity might have been negligible, it hurts, it's sad that the two have drifted apart.
Although the action takes place over 24 hours, the two end up in bed together, despite their differences.
Stephen satiates Bloom's appetite for a son, which allows Molly to satiate Bloom's sexual appetite, and perhaps, only perhaps, vice versa.

A Floral Arrangement of “Ulysses�

Joyce constructs "Ulysses" around imagery of flowers.
Leopold Bloom, himself, is of course a flower, Molly's "mountain flower", perhaps her "mountin' flower".
Molly loves roses, and associates their courting with the exchange of roses, and during consummation the squashing of roses on her chest.
A rose bud might describe her genitals, a red rose might symbolize the fact that she is menstruating, a white rose her availability for sex.
Ultimately, over the course of the day, the relationship of Bloom and Molly progresses from bud to blossom.
The flower of any relationship is not a constant, it is an organic cycle of growth, decay and revival that repeats with time, each time a rebirth or resurrection.

A Journalistic Approach to “Ulysses�

I could pause and focus on the language of “Ulysses�, the Episodes and sentences and expressions that I loved.
However, ultimately, the tidbits and titbits that appealed to me are in my Notes.
I would prefer to spend the rest of this review focusing on the extent to which “Ulysses� is Joyce’s journal of a journey.
Interestingly, the word “journal� derives from the recording of a day’s activities, while the word “journey� derives from the work or travel we do in a day.
A journalist was originally someone who kept a journal of the day’s activities.
"Ulysses" is an epic tale of a journey or, more accurately, a number of journeys.
It's modeled on Homer's "Odyssey", the tale of the Greek king Odysseus' return home from Troy to Ithaca.
The Trojan War took ten years, and after that it took Odysseus another ten years to overcome many perils and make his way back home to his wife (Penelope) and son (Telemachus).
In the meantime, Penelope had been besieged by marriage suitors, everyone believing that Odysseus was dead.
Thus, at the heart of “The Odyssey� is a return to home, matrimony and parenthood.
In Homer's work, Odysseus is the hero, while the Odyssey describes the hero's journey.
The word "Ulysses" is the Latin equivalent of the word "Odysseus".
For what it's worth, in contrast to Homer, Joyce's work is named after the hero rather than the journey itself.
At the most superficial level, "Ulysses" is a geographical journey home from Troy to Ithaca, from a place of war to a place of love, from Bloom's home, through the streets of Dublin and back home again.
It's also a chronological journey from morning (sunrise) to afternoon to evening, through the night (darkness) and back to morning (a new sunrise, a new day).
It's a journey from Stephen's childhood to Bloom's parenthood, from Stephen's quest for a father to Bloom's quest for a son, and the satisfaction of both.
In the relationship between Stephen and Bloom, it's a journey from separation to unity, from an unholy threesome to a Holy Trinity (including Dublin’s Stuff of Life).
Artistically, for both Stephen and Joyce himself, it's a journey from self-doubt and idleness to realisation and fruition.
Inside Bloom's residence, it's a journey from downstairs to upstairs, from the basement (Hell) through the lounge room and kitchen (Purgatory) to the bedroom (Heaven).
In the relationship between Bloom and Molly, it's a journey from estrangement to reconciliation, from celibacy to consummation, from No! to Yes!
In the vulgar relationship between cock and cunt (to harness the vernacular), it's a journey from the outside to the inside, from dry to wet, from interruptus to coitus, from conjugal wrongs to conjugal rights, from a red erection to a resurrection, from till death do us part to life ever after.

A Creative Theory of “Ulysses�

The return home completes and perfects everything, it restores order and the way of all flesh, the way of all things.
Just as this beauty is achieved in everyday life, it is achieved in creativity.
Artistic creation achieves order and beauty.
Just as Bloom returns to Molly, Joyce himself returns to his wife, Nora, bearing a gift.
Ultimately, "Ulysses" is Joyce's gift to his wife, Nora, the mother of his son (George), the mother of his daughter (Lucia).
She is his love, his purpose, his cause, his fulfilment, his reward.
She is the stuff of his life, the stuff of his legend, the guarantee of his immortality.
“Ulysses� is the container, the receptacle (dare I say it, the Holy Grail?), the womb that holds all of this, and more.

...
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Reading Progress

March 6, 2011 – Shelved
June 28, 2011 – Started Reading
June 28, 2011 – Shelved as: reviews
July 24, 2011 –
page 241
25.83%
July 28, 2011 –
page 281
30.12% "I'm sitting here thinking, if I turn it around this way, no that way, hang on here's another way, I will prevail over this Rubik's Cube of a novel. However, in the manner of a Rubik's Cube and unlike tantric sex (no, I never mastered that either), I think its secrets might actually be better revealed if I just forget about the pleasure principle and get it over and done with really, really quickly."
July 31, 2011 –
page 422
45.23%
August 1, 2011 – Finished Reading
August 2, 2011 –
page 454
48.66%
August 12, 2011 –
page 802
85.96%
September 29, 2011 – Shelved as: read-2011
October 25, 2011 – Shelved as: exert-yourself
February 15, 2012 – Shelved as: reviews-5-stars
February 15, 2012 – Shelved as: joycean-tales-of-brave-ulysses

Comments Showing 1-50 of 55 (55 new)


Velvetink I have mine in the house somewhere - read it long ago, should give it another try & attempt to review it but I have this procrastination monkey on my back I'm fighting with just now.


message 2: by Ian (last edited Mar 06, 2011 06:49PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye You gotta get that monkey off your back.
So you can get your writing back on track.
Ignore Julia and Kevin
And just count from one to seven

If Telemachus is 1
Then Nestor is 2
Then Proteus is 3
Calypso, what you waiting 4?

If man is 5
Then the devil is 6
Then god is 7
This monkey's gone to heaven.


Velvetink Ha! good one. 10 points. Though it's not Julia and Kevin bothering me. ;D


Velvetink Anthony Burgess was a strange and brilliant fellow...the author of A Clockwork Orange & others, he also wrote a couple of books on Joyce.
http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/...


message 5: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye Thanks, V.
I am actually a bit of a fan of Anthony Burgess.
It's the drunk who came in and typed that review on my computer who doesn't know of him!
Hope you're well.
As Carole King would say, you've got a friend.


message 6: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye I've still got 28 days to read the first chapter. Yippee.


Velvetink Have you started it?


message 8: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye I've got as far as "Stately, plump Buck Mulligan..."
I want to finish Prague, before I start Dublin.
"Paralytic Tonight, Dublin Tomorrow."


Velvetink "Paralytic Tonight, Dublin Tomorrow." = I like that!

My reading has slowed & can't settle on anything in particular...feel like I'm reading to beat the GR challenge clock Vs my assignments and exams (2 biggies loom) - I've been looking for my copy of Joyce everywhere, seems to be lost - but hope to pick one up in Sydney next week - have to jaunt down to Broadway so making a stop at the basement bookstore. :D


message 10: by Ian (last edited Jun 02, 2011 04:32AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye When are you going to be in Sydney?
I arrive Wednesday and come home Friday.


Velvetink Not sure yet Mon or Tue, but I have to meet my father so it's complicated -


message 12: by Lisa (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lisa Ha! I'm waiting with bated breath to see how you review this one!


message 13: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye I was thinking about committing to reading one chapter a month, but I just checked and there's only three chapters.


message 14: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye OK, I've worked out the 18 episodes and I've set up a word document with page numbers and everything.


message 15: by Lisa (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lisa You know about this?
It's got lots of useful links to sites by non-boring non-pompous people who (unlike me) know what they're talking about. And nice pictures, don't miss the link on The Lestrygonians post. There's even the occasional music video, and somewhere (I forget where) there's a link to a CD you can buy of the music JJ refers to...


message 16: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye Wow, thanks, Lisa, I've had a quick scan through the first pages, but will let you know when I'm ready to start and revisit your site.


Joselito Honestly and Brilliantly I am watching. It would be exciting to see your spaceship either reach the moon or explode in midair.


message 18: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye Ha ha. I might have to use a different vessel in another passage.
I have assembled my vulgar boatmen in readiness for Episode 1 here:

http://www.goodreads.com/story/show/2...


David Katzman Did you know that you were quoting from a Pixies song?

Or were the Pixies quoting something that you were quoting?

Monkey gone to heaven.


message 20: by [deleted user] (new)

A tip from William Faulkner: "You should approach Joyce's Ulysses as the illiterate Baptist preacher approaches the Old Testament: with faith."

Hope it helps.


message 21: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye David wrote: "Did you know that you were quoting from a Pixies song?

Or were the Pixies quoting something that you were quoting?

Monkey gone to heaven."


Yeah, I was just riffing on V's monkey and the Pixies' lyric.
Great band, great song.


David Katzman nice.


message 23: by Ian (last edited Jul 09, 2011 07:48PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye Julia wrote: "A tip from William Faulkner: "You should approach Joyce's Ulysses as the illiterate Baptist preacher approaches the Old Testament: with faith."

Hope it helps."


Thanks, Julia.

I've read a bit more on a lengthy plane trip that I've just returned from, but haven't written up my notes yet.
I must have the faith that's necessary, because so far it's been a breeze (at least at the superficial level of what's on the page. divorced from any references I mightn't have got).
I think the hardest thing is making the decision to start.
Now I'm kicking myself I didn't start earlier in my life.


message 24: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye My reading notes on Episode 1 are here:

http://www.goodreads.com/story/show/2...


message 25: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye Completed Review: August 25, 2011 Version

My completed Review is here:

http://www.goodreads.com/story/show/2...

I will leave my Drunken Book Review on this page, because it has received likes in its own right.


message 26: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye A comment on my review from Phillip on the James Joyce Reading Group discussion of "Ulysses":

"an original approach to reviewing the book - what i like best about it is that you created your own ways of framing the narrative ... perhaps the review says more about you and the process of reviewing than it says about the book ... and that's fair enough because, as you have learned with this reading, Ulysses is a meta-reading experience - it changes the way you read - and it connects you to many readings and points of departures. in this way, the structure of your review is a lot like reading Ulysses - well done! each one of the sections offered a nice tidbit (joyce would have said epiphany) of "a-HA!"

Thanks, Phillip


Aloha Ooh, I am up for the challenge. I have a complex book addiction now.


message 28: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye Aloha, make sure you read the actual review here:

http://www.goodreads.com/story/show/2...

Like 1Q84, hardly anybody seems to have found it.


message 29: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye I'm glad you called "Ulysses" complex, rather than hard or difficult.


Aloha Complex is fun. Hard or difficult is not. This depends on how you find the book. 1Q84 I find complex. Complexity is fun, like figuring out puzzles.


message 31: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye Fun is an interstitial between complexity and simplicity, hence the pleasure potential of simplexity.


Aloha I think it was during Simplexity that all the educated people were killed in A Canticle for Leibowitz. The actual term was Simplification.


message 33: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye I'm waiting to be wined and dined by your review of that book.

Also check out my profile photo:

http://www.goodreads.com/photo/user/5...


Aloha LOL. My opinion of it has not changed, but my temper is gone. I probably will give it 1 or 2 stars more even if I think the book contained sermons of the Roman Catholic ilk. If people can rave about it just because they find it inspirational, why can't I throw it against the wall and give it a 1 star rating if I find it offensive?


message 35: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye Your temper might be gone, but then sometimes revenge is a dish best served cold.

We should investigate:





And then we could invent simchronicity.


message 36: by Riku (new) - rated it 5 stars

Riku Sayuj I so want to start this - for 5 years now. The wonderful edition (with the cap and the ink stained title below) has been forlorn on my shelf that long.


message 37: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye Forlorn, but not for long.


message 38: by Riku (new) - rated it 5 stars

Riku Sayuj Ian wrote: "Forlorn, but not for long."

:) Indeed. I think I'll muster some courage and start it today. If I do finish it (and appreciate it) then indebtedness would be a mild word to use.


message 39: by Carly (new)

Carly Svamvour Ian wrote: "OK, I've worked out the 18 episodes and I've set up a word document with page numbers and everything."

OMG! Man after me own heart ... I've been using the draft docs on OUtlook ... do a lot of my writing that way.


message 40: by Riku (last edited Feb 15, 2012 09:35AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Riku Sayuj what are the must read books to understand Ulysses to a satisfactory level?


message 41: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye Riku, the one book you need is "Ulysses" itself.

I have a number of books on the following shelf:

http://www.goodreads.com/review/list/...

The one I consulted most frequently was the Matthew Hodgart one, because it was short and had useful chapter summaries.

The wiki entry is also useful.

But ultimately I decided that "Ulysses" is a multiple reading adventure and I decided that my first experience had to be to read for the pleasure of the words, rather than the allusions.

Each episode is just a collection of words in a different style.

It's important not to let it intimidate you.

You can come back later for more informed or laborious readings.

But by then you will have a feel for the pleasures of the novel.

Also, see the advice here:




message 42: by Riku (new) - rated it 5 stars

Riku Sayuj Ian wrote: "Riku, the one book you need is "Ulysses" itself.

I have a number of books on the following shelf:

http://www.goodreads.com/review/list/...

T..."


Oh I didn't mean books about joyce's work. I meant the sources that Joyce himself drew on.


message 43: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye Sorry, Homer's "Odyssey".



Still, my answer would be the same: read it first as self-contained.


message 44: by Riku (new) - rated it 5 stars

Riku Sayuj Ian wrote: "Sorry, Homer's "Odyssey".



Still, my answer would be the same: read it first as self-contained."


Of course I knew of Odyssey :)

So the book is more or less self-contained work once you subtract Odyssey from it?

By the way what is the reason for your sustained interest?


message 45: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye It is Everyman's 24 hour Odyssey through the known (and knowable) World (as represented by Dublin).

You can find every aspect of Life in this novel, as if it were a holy scripture (or a profane and unholy script) that you return to, each time with new eyes and more context and greater experience.

It's like a mirror to the world. Every time you peer into it, something will look slightly different, not because the book is changing, but because we do and our relationship with it does.

I don't mean to say it is self-contained.

I mean that your first reading should treat it "as if" it is self-contained.


message 46: by Riku (new) - rated it 5 stars

Riku Sayuj Ian wrote: "It is Everyman's 24 hour Odyssey through the known (and knowable) World (as represented by Dublin).

You can find every aspect of Life in this novel, as if it were a holy scripture (or a profane an..."


Thanks for the patience to indulge my questions. Will get back to this after the prescribed weeks.


message 47: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye Have fun and please return to tell your story.


message 48: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye I've just inserted a 100 word precis (of my longer review) at the beginning of the review on this page.


message 49: by Tuck (new)

Tuck Ian wrote: "You gotta get that monkey off your back.
So you can get your writing back on track.
Ignore Julia and Kevin
And just count from one to seven

If Telemachus is 1
Then Nestor is 2
Then Proteus is 3
Ca..."


hah, thanks Ian, now I don't have to read it. my lifetime is too short?


message 50: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye It's either "Ulysses" or the Pixies. loudQUIETloud.


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