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karen's Reviews > The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo
The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo (Millennium #1)
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we are in low-three land here. but at least i am learning things about sweden! for example: ladies in sweden just kind of shrug off sexual abuse! they are rape-teflon! this i am learning from the facts provided at the beginning of chapters, and from various characters' reactions to events. they just brush themselves off and go back to eating sandwiches. yes, that is another thing i learned: the swedes eat sandwiches. exclusively. if you excise every occurrence of the words "coffee" and "sandwiches" from the text, you will be left with a book maybe half the size of what it is now. it is like larsson had some sort of writing tic that when he was stuck for what the characters should do next, he would just bang out, "eat sandwiches and coffee". sweden is overall a sexually permissive country - women will share their men with a "no harm done" attitude of complacency - there will be handshakes and smiles all around. and perhaps a sandwich! sweden's prisons are fun places where a guy can really get some rest before he goes back into the world to sex up some more ladies - consensually, of course. these are the wonders of sweden, as presented by the girl with the dragon tattoo.
so those constitute my "ughs"
i really just don't understand the mass appeal of this book. there are crimes committed in this book for no other reason than character development. that, to me, is an odd way to write a book. there is a density to the writing that is enjoyable, but the dénouement is incredibly abrupt, and then there is just... more story... true, it is a wrapping-up of another plotline, but the energy that should follow the big whodunit seems compromised by about fifty pages of ...more plot. the reader becomes emotionally invested in one storyline and intellectually invested in the other... after the emotional plot is spent, who wants to read a long subplot wrap-up? this is coming from someone who doesn't read a lot of mysteries, but knows how they should be shaped. and i rather liked the subplot wrap-up, but my attentions as a reader were confused.
questions i am forced to ask:
is the hype just because of author-death? and the mystique therein? because this guy ain't no mishima, is all i'm saying.
is there a distinction between autism and sociopathy?
what was the point of the character of cecelia?
are three facial piercings and 4 tattoos really considered to be that "weird" and excessive in sweden?
and while we are on the subject - i am so sick of hot-goth-computer-hacker characters. i was sick of it wayyyy back here:
and here:
and i don't even watch this show, but i am aware of it:
i announce:it is enough already. get a new cliché. like "average-build girl who sometimes listens to dave matthews". or "girl who dresses office-appropriate and sometimes smokes pot on weekends". cybergoth chicks are over, people...
the book is fine, i may or may not read the other ones - this one was for class, but now that i have read one, i am almost compelled to finish it off. this is the reason i don't usually read genre fiction. i cannot commit to 11 books, or whatever... but i may have just mentally committed to 2.
so those constitute my "ughs"
i really just don't understand the mass appeal of this book. there are crimes committed in this book for no other reason than character development. that, to me, is an odd way to write a book. there is a density to the writing that is enjoyable, but the dénouement is incredibly abrupt, and then there is just... more story... true, it is a wrapping-up of another plotline, but the energy that should follow the big whodunit seems compromised by about fifty pages of ...more plot. the reader becomes emotionally invested in one storyline and intellectually invested in the other... after the emotional plot is spent, who wants to read a long subplot wrap-up? this is coming from someone who doesn't read a lot of mysteries, but knows how they should be shaped. and i rather liked the subplot wrap-up, but my attentions as a reader were confused.
questions i am forced to ask:
is the hype just because of author-death? and the mystique therein? because this guy ain't no mishima, is all i'm saying.
is there a distinction between autism and sociopathy?
what was the point of the character of cecelia?
are three facial piercings and 4 tattoos really considered to be that "weird" and excessive in sweden?
and while we are on the subject - i am so sick of hot-goth-computer-hacker characters. i was sick of it wayyyy back here:
and here:
and i don't even watch this show, but i am aware of it:
i announce:it is enough already. get a new cliché. like "average-build girl who sometimes listens to dave matthews". or "girl who dresses office-appropriate and sometimes smokes pot on weekends". cybergoth chicks are over, people...
the book is fine, i may or may not read the other ones - this one was for class, but now that i have read one, i am almost compelled to finish it off. this is the reason i don't usually read genre fiction. i cannot commit to 11 books, or whatever... but i may have just mentally committed to 2.
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Reading Progress
February 1, 2010
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Started Reading
February 1, 2010
– Shelved
February 4, 2010
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Finished Reading
Comments Showing 1-50 of 84 (84 new)
I don't know who any of those goth hackers are. I am planning on liberally inserting coffee and sandwiches into all my future writings. And I'm not even Swedish.
It's better than in the movie Foxy Brown... where the characters had coffee and tacos. (Also know as the Runny Stool Special.)
Sweden gave us Ingmar Bergman, ABBA, and inexpensive modernist furnishings. They can pretty much sit back for the rest of eternity and not worry about doing anything else important or worthwhile. That's more than enough.
The middle one is Angelina Jolie from the movie Hackers, a classic of the mid 90's about rollerblading hackers.
Oh. Okay.RE: Goth Hacker #1. I'm not completely convinced that smearing some black eyeshadow all over your face earns you the goth descriptor. Just looks anemic to me. She should take some fish oil pills or something.
Mark your calendar, Greggie. I'm gonna be in NYC the last weekend of March. Prepare for booknerd decadence.
I've got it marked, and I'm even preparing not to be a recluse for your visit.
Sweden's also one of the healthiest societies on the planet and throughout all of human history thus far. That counts for something. Bah! I wish I had the wherewithal to learn some Scandanavian language so I could move to one of those paradises. Sweden, Denmark, Iceland...they've got things pretty well figured out.
Karen, Swedes do indeed drink an incredible amount of coffee (more than any other country in the world, I read somewhere), and their prisons are far pleasanter than American ones. But the sandwiches?? Lisbeth constantly eats Billys Pan Pizza. She's addicted to it. I kept wondering if there was a twelve point program to help her stop. Go through the book again and underline occurrences of "sandwich" and "pizza" in different colours, then tell me if you still believe what you said.Not too sure about rape-teflon either. I'd say she's just a great believer in don't get mad, get even.
sheesh - the first picture is the william-gibson-written episode of the x-files. no other nerds on the internet?? she is gothier-looking in the show; that's the only picture i could find. the third one is from ncis, which is apparently a big deal.manny, i don't know what language you are reading this one in, but in english, in this first book, she does the pizza thing once maybe twice. but sandwiches?? i stand behind everything i have said and can totally do the counting tomorrow if necessary.
rape-teflon was intended to cover a number of characters, both in the text, and alluded to by the statistics offered.
Hm, it's possible that the pizza thing only really kicks in during the second book. I just did a quick Google, and "Lisabeth Salander" + pizza gets 7400 hits while "Lisbeth Salander" + sandwich gets 1400. What do other people think?
By the way (it must be because I've been reading too much about the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis recently), Swedish is unusual in having the following lexical items: a verb which means "to drink coffee" (fika); a noun that means "a second cup of coffee" (±èÃ¥³ÙÃ¥°ù); and even a noun that means "a third cup of coffee" (³Ù°ù±ð³ÙÃ¥°ù). All of these words are extremely common. Most days at work, someone will come past your room at least once or twice, and ask Ska vi gÃ¥ fika? ("Shall we go and have a coffee?"). It's normal at cafés to see a price for kaffe med ±èÃ¥³ÙÃ¥°ù ("coffee, including a second cup").
we are in low-three land here. but at least i am learning things about sweden! for example: ladies in sweden just kind of shrug off sexual abuse!
Please I am a swede and have read "The girl with the dragon tattoo". I hope you are having a sick kind of joke when you are saying the above. Swedish woman, in general are more intolerant about any sexual abuse than in most countries.
The point the author is trying to make is, that although Sweden in this matter is better towards woman than most coutries, it still exists because it is universal.
Please I am a swede and have read "The girl with the dragon tattoo". I hope you are having a sick kind of joke when you are saying the above. Swedish woman, in general are more intolerant about any sexual abuse than in most countries.
The point the author is trying to make is, that although Sweden in this matter is better towards woman than most coutries, it still exists because it is universal.
i am not making a joke, i am just responding to a tone in the narrative and the way material is presented in the book. i think it is mostly the product of a male author who writes female characters clumsily. the first part of the review, in my head, reads with a faux-enthusiastic "gee whiz" ironic gusto. it may not come across in type.
and i really don't think the author thinks it is "better" for women in sweden. it seems to be exactly the opposite point.
Karen, I think it's pretty clear that your irony was directed towards the book and not rape. Rape is a Very Serious Issue and no laughing matter. But can't we have a nice chuckle about it now and then? Of course, I've never had the pleasure of being raped by a Swedish man, but I have listened to ABBA, and it was totally non-consentual, so I can imagine what it's like.
I had no idea you were being ironic, and now I've got to see if I can get a refund on the plane tickets I bought last night after reading your review. Shit.
I have read somewhere that, on average, Swedish women have some of the smallest boobies per capita. This certainly flies in the face of the anecdotal evidence of Anita Ekberg and the Swedish Bikini Team.Hey. Don't blame me. Blame science. Although some questions regarding methodology seem in order here.
rape aside, i am counting. by page 191, there are zero pizzas, 5 sandwiches, and 19 coffees.and i just realized it is snowing. hard. wheeee!
But Karen, I just don't understand where this "shrugging off sexual abuse" is coming from. Who, in the novel, shrugs off sexual abuse? Lisbeth tattoos herself after being raped by Bjurmann, so that she'll never forget it - it's implied that her other tattoos have a similar origin. She's suspicious of everyone, never allows Michael to know anything about her, and has trouble forming permanent emotional attachments. Again, it's implied that this is because of the way she's been abused.And OK, Harriet isn't permanently traumatized by what she's suffered, but you meet her 35 years later. She's travelled to the other side of the world and started a completely new life to get away from it.
So what exactly are you referring to?
karen wrote: "rape aside, i am counting. by page 191, there are zero pizzas, 5 sandwiches, and 19 coffees."I'm sure there's more pizza in the second book. I think you'll soon have material for a contrastive study, and I look forward to reading it.
yeah, i might not be articulating what i am feeling properly. what i am going to say now will probably be filled with spoilers, so back off unless you want it like that. s is a problem because she reacts to the first rape so passively. of course, she has an excuse because of the nature of her character, but then - then - she bounces into bed with some other guy pretty soon after being so brutalized that her rectum is bleeding. that is some serious physical and emotional compartmentalization. and then there are c and h, who were repeatedly beaten/molested without ever telling anyone... this coupled with all the statistics setting the tone for the chapters about how many women in sweden are attacked and how few report it... it all added up in my mind to create a picture of Sexuality In Sweden, which is probably inaccurate. plus, b's whole "what can i do?" attitude when it comes to women. he seems baffled that c would question his bedroom choices... "but i can't just not sleep with her, i've been doing it so long..." kind of attitude. i understand a man not being able to write genuine-seeming female emotions/thought processes but this male character comes across as supremely dull-witted when it comes to his own women. i'm probably not explaining it correctly, i was just frequently astounded by characters' actions.
To me, it was plain that Lisbeth reacts passively to the first rape because Bjurmann has her in his power, she's used to being abused and exploited, and she just sees it as being the easiest solution to the problem. And as for "bouncing into bed with Mikael", one of the ways she reacts to abuse is that she in turn abuses others. Initially, she's just using Mikael for sex, which is what she usually does. It's only later that she lets her guard down and develops feelings for him, which is why the ending is so tragic. plus, b's whole "what can i do?" attitude when it comes to women. he seems baffled that c would question his bedroom choices... "but i can't just not sleep with her, i've been doing it so long..." kind of attitude.
Look, you may disapprove of the way he thinks, but is this unrealistic? I found Mikael's relationship with Erika quite plausible, and indeed one of the best things about the novel. Mikael is not always so kind to his women, but that's the point, isn't it?
Right now I have "girl who dresses office-appropriate and sometimes smokes pot on weekends" on my clipboard because I wanted to bring it down here and tell karen that I chuckled at that bit, but she totally got shown up by #19 which made me choke on my Ska vi gå fika with milk and carob. But now Manny and karen are Very Serious, and I'm not sure I'm allowed to talk about funnies.
sure, it is just surprising that she would be up for it, physically, but i suppose it is a couple of month's worth of time in between. speaking for myself, it would take more than a couple of months to pop into bed with a relative stranger after being handcuffed and anally raped all night. but i'm kind of a pussy. and her seduction of him - it didn't seem to be her using him, she is stunned that he hasn't flirted with her, even though they have been living together for a week. she is calmost angry that he "treated her like a human being". her bedding him is aggressive, but it is clear there is an emotional drive behind it that she doesn't know what to do with.salander's willful passivity was a stumbling block for me, mentally. that scenario aside, her choice to say nothing - ever - to make her life easier makes it hard to feel any sympathy for her. i understand having trust issues, but at some point you have to prove that you are competent if you want to be treated as someone competent, especially as a minor.if you act retarded, you will be treated like you are retarded.
and i don;t care how he treats his women - my issue is that he seems genuinely confused that a woman who has developed feelings for him, and with whom he is sleeping, is upset about his continued sexual dalliance with another woman. even though she knew about her beforehand. the inability to acknowledge someone else's feelings is what troubles me. and the inability to comfort. i mean, it's no less autistic than salander, but a whole book populated with affectless characters is not interesting to me, because i am not a robot.
i would rather never be serious, honestly.i am more ABBA than serious.
and i do love mr mulligan, despite his making me jealous about george elliott clarke.
Um... Karen, are you planning to read the second and third books in the trilogy? I think we'll be able to have a more meaningful discussion if you do. And about Mikael's confusion regarding his women's hurt feelings: again, you may not like it, but Larsson is describing things that happen frequently, and in my humble opinion does it in a convincing way. It's confusing because Mikael is basically portrayed as a good guy, but he still acts thoughtlessly, even callously. I wouldn't say this made him autistic or affectless - or, if it does, then a lot of men are autistic and affectless.
Bottom line, to me, is that this is an interesting and disturbing book, and the more you think about it, the more disturbing it becomes. It's not just your common-or-garden thriller. It's saying worthwhile things about the way that men behave towards women.
yeah - i suppose i should. all of my reaction is just to this one book, so it might be that things are explained or mitigated later. these are just things i noticed in this book.i still think there are inconsistencies in his character, but i just erased the mega-rant i wrote because i have only read this one book, and it may get better, and there's no need to discuss any further plot-points where it might ruin surprises for others, although i think it's probably too late for that. i am sure to have a lively class-discussion about this on thursday, though...
I just don't understand what's wrong with rape in the first place. If you're strong enough to get it, take it. Right?...
Discuss.
Isaiah wrote: "I just don't understand what's wrong with rape in the first place. If you're strong enough to get it, take it. Right?...
Discuss."
I do, in my review of Sperm Wars...
This is like my friend saying to me last weekend, "I just don't see what you have against AIDS," while I was going off on a drunken tirade about .
The office appropriate Goth was Abby from NCIS. Sheesh!
There must be a storm in California, Isaiah has returned.
I enjoyed this book and thought Lisbeth was disturbed,and maybe not exactly thinking clearly due to the "shock" of how she was treated. I had a very good friend who was raped at a very young age. It was so sad. How did she deal with it? Became the biggest slut known to man,and slept with everybody,and got pregnant by one guy,and tried to get pregnant by other men so they would marry her, because the father of her child didn't marry her. Then she got pregnant finally again,and he married her, had a 3rd child, then this husband beat her,and was mentally,and verbally abusive to her, so then she had an affair openly with a high school boy. This high school boy openly taunted the husband, who took a baseball bat,and beat the shit out of this 17 year old boy, then she divorced, remarried,and the 2nd husband was a nut as well,and now she's alone,and depressed,and finally has a decent job,and is trying to take care of herself,and she's 49 years old. So, who knows how a person deals with trauma, right?
my point is, I am looking forward to reading the other "2" books once in paperback. and yeah, i know run on sentences, but i was into the flow,and couldn't stop. lol!
holy cow, dude. that is a terrible, terrible situation. and i am largely heartless, so.
meaning by what, largely heartless???
meaning i don't get emotionally invested in movies or books and it takes a lot to move me, ordinarily. that story made me feel human emotion.
yeah, the story about my friend does move you to think about how would you react in the same type of situation??... hard to tell.... unless you live it yourself. some of us can make a direct connection to things we've experienced in common,and those that don't can only imagine,and really can't truly understand or relate.......only imagine what that hell could have been like.so, maybe lisbeth is living,and coping in ways she only knew how to cope.....
karen wrote: "meaning i don't get emotionally invested in movies or books and it takes a lot to move me, ordinarily. that story made me feel human emotion."I used to be that way, then middle age came and it all changed. Hey Frenchie! la smoochy
sure, but in literature, don't we usually want our characters to be comprehensible - to behave in a way that seems natural, and not contrived simply to provide literary tension? her behavior, to me, seems designed to make her "quirky" or "interesting", which takes her out of the realm of the relatable. and before everyone gets all rarr rarr rrarrr - no, i don't always need to read about characters that make the same decisions i would make, of course, but it is always nice to read about a character that has recognizable human attributes. salander's decisions seem contrived to make her life more difficult, and it's not as though she is holding to some Great Principle that guides her actions, and she also doesn't always seem genuinely autistic - she makes choices to behave as she does. dunno, i can't explain my feelings no better or longer. karen out!
I think the steady diet of coffee and sandwiches (with emphasis on the former) is what put Larsson into his grave prematurely. Magnesium deficiency = heart failure.
there's a paper in there, somewhere.
I thought the neo-nazi movement did it.
I did like the book, but I don't exactly understand why it is as popular as it is. I actually had to buy the book the week we read it because there were so many holds on it across the Nassau Library System that I never got it in time. It was good, but not good enough to make me see why it was so hard to get.
it is a phenomenon. and now that the movie is out...i am going to a scandinavian restaurant on friday. maybe they will serve me sandwiches and coffee.
have fun! i've never been to a Scandinavian restaurant before
You still sick Frenchy?
koff.yeah, but i am on the path to wellville.
yesterday i had such a bad coughing fit that i frew up.
ta-daaaaa!
Do your sides hurt so bad that you wish you were dead? DO not laugh today, or you will weep.
I think I can safely ignore this book in peace now and not feel like I'm missing out on anything. I think some of the appeal is that it's foreign, but accessible foreign, like some of Bergman wore off on all other cultural commodities since him and they are now automatically better than they really are. This is all done subconciously by people who probably don't even know who Bergman is.
Or maybe their Ikea furniture is telling them to read this. Maybe the books look so awesome on Ikea furniture that everyone just has to own and love them.