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Madeline's Reviews > Wicked: The Life and Times of the Wicked Witch of the West
Wicked: The Life and Times of the Wicked Witch of the West (The Wicked Years, #1)
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Instead of my usual griping style, we'll do this review in list form.
Things That I Really Wish Gregory Maguire Had Bothered To Explain That Might Have Made Wicked Worth Reading:
-Why Elphaba is green
-Why Elphaba cannot touch water
-The "Philosophy Club" which seemed to be some sort of bizarre sex club which was introduced towards the middle of the story, and then never mentioned again
-How it's physically possible that Elphaba gave birth to a son, but may actually not have, because she doesn't remember it. (Maguire's explanation is that she was drugged up on sedatives for the entire pregnancy and therefore cannot tell if she actually had a kid. Um...listen, Greg, I know you're a guy, but I assure you, there is no drug on this earth or on Oz that makes a woman unable to remember giving birth)
-What the hell the Clock of the Time Dragon was, and how it's able to give puppet shows revealing the Deep Dark Secrets of characters' pasts
-Why Elphaba wanted the magic slippers so much
-The backstory of the Scarecrow and why he hated the Wicked Witch of the West. (The Tin Man and Lion are explained, but I guess by the time he had to come up with a story for the Scarecrow, Maguire had used up all his creative juices. As a result, the Scarecrow just appears with the others at the witch's castle, and even Elphaba can't figure out why the hell he's there)
UPDATE: I didn't want to be a jerk about this, but I am forced to deliver the following public service announcement.
ATTENTION POTENTIAL COMMENTERS: I appreciate the fact that you wish to take time out of your busy to day to offer explanations for some or all of the questions I posed above. HOWEVER, before you do this, I advise you to read through ALL THE OTHER COMMENTS THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN POSTED explaining various aspects of the book that I am too stupid to grasp. IF, after reading every single comment, you still feel that you have something really original and startling to say that has not already been pointed out a million times, then please be my guest and post your comment. If not, please be aware that the book's many flaws have already been explained to me by dozens of people, and one more person telling me "it's a really good book, you just have to read it twenty times before you understand MaGuire's genius!" will not convince me to alter my one-star rating in any way.
Thank you, and have a nice day.
Things That I Really Wish Gregory Maguire Had Bothered To Explain That Might Have Made Wicked Worth Reading:
-Why Elphaba is green
-Why Elphaba cannot touch water
-The "Philosophy Club" which seemed to be some sort of bizarre sex club which was introduced towards the middle of the story, and then never mentioned again
-How it's physically possible that Elphaba gave birth to a son, but may actually not have, because she doesn't remember it. (Maguire's explanation is that she was drugged up on sedatives for the entire pregnancy and therefore cannot tell if she actually had a kid. Um...listen, Greg, I know you're a guy, but I assure you, there is no drug on this earth or on Oz that makes a woman unable to remember giving birth)
-What the hell the Clock of the Time Dragon was, and how it's able to give puppet shows revealing the Deep Dark Secrets of characters' pasts
-Why Elphaba wanted the magic slippers so much
-The backstory of the Scarecrow and why he hated the Wicked Witch of the West. (The Tin Man and Lion are explained, but I guess by the time he had to come up with a story for the Scarecrow, Maguire had used up all his creative juices. As a result, the Scarecrow just appears with the others at the witch's castle, and even Elphaba can't figure out why the hell he's there)
UPDATE: I didn't want to be a jerk about this, but I am forced to deliver the following public service announcement.
ATTENTION POTENTIAL COMMENTERS: I appreciate the fact that you wish to take time out of your busy to day to offer explanations for some or all of the questions I posed above. HOWEVER, before you do this, I advise you to read through ALL THE OTHER COMMENTS THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN POSTED explaining various aspects of the book that I am too stupid to grasp. IF, after reading every single comment, you still feel that you have something really original and startling to say that has not already been pointed out a million times, then please be my guest and post your comment. If not, please be aware that the book's many flaws have already been explained to me by dozens of people, and one more person telling me "it's a really good book, you just have to read it twenty times before you understand MaGuire's genius!" will not convince me to alter my one-star rating in any way.
Thank you, and have a nice day.
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Reading Progress
Finished Reading
December 7, 2007
– Shelved
September 8, 2008
– Shelved as:
fantasy
July 2, 2009
– Shelved as:
kids-and-young-adult
December 29, 2009
– Shelved as:
ugh
Comments Showing 1-50 of 278 (278 new)
The real question is...does Elphaba weigh the same as a duck? These are the kind of things that keep me up at night.
Well, as long as she's made of wood, I think it's pretty clear she weighs the same as a duck. Though I will run the argument past the local Professor of Logic to be on the safe side. I met his wife once, she's fun.
I didn't enjoy the book either, but I think I might have a couple of answers for you:Elphaba was green because her mother was drinking from the potion that came from the green bottle (The Miracle Elixir) when she got pregnant. Something in that potion made her green (and, apparently, made her born with sharp teeth and an affinity for sniffing urine, something which doesn't make sense after she grows up).
She wanted the shoes because her father gave them to Nessarose, who was his favorite. Elphaba coveted the symbol of her father's love.
I think she was in a coma or catatonic or something when she gave birth to Liir, wasn't she? From the shock of Fiyero's death? Not just sedated. Maybe not, It's been a long time since I read this, but that's how I remember it.
In the musical, Fiyero becomes the Scarecrow and Boq becomes the Tin Man. In the book, Nessarose turns a woodsman into the Tin Man, and in Baum's original story, a woodsman was cursed by a witch. Maybe the Scarecrow's origin is the same as in Baum's story, and the farmer put a charm on him. Elphaba thinks the scarecrow is Fiyero but later realizes he is just an ordinary scarecrow.
Thank you, everyone who has tried to explain the book to me. You've done a much better job than Maguire did.But I still can't wrap my head around the whole I-gave-birth-or-maybe-not thing. Even if she was in a coma (and I don't care enough to actually re-read the book to check this), that still doesn't work. Excuse me for being painfully graphic here, but when a woman expels a freaking baby from her body, there are bound to be at least a few physical effects that she'd probably notice sometime.
Annabeth wrote: well, maybe. I haven't read the book, but I am obsessed with the musical Yeah, the book and musical are VASTLY different. Pretty much the only similarites are names and places, and Galinda's selfishness.
Madeline wrote: "Fine. I guess it's possible that on the alternate universe of Oz, a woman can carry a growing baby inside her for nine months (or however long - hey, maybe Oz gestation periods are only three days!..."LoL! You are hilarious! Maybe in Oz land she birthed the baby when defecating?
hey, um, you know what really helps when reading Maguire?read it again.
if you don't get it, read it again.
it took me twice to get everything, but then after thinking that it was really dim and unexplained, you get it.
Sarah wrote: "Annabeth wrote: well, maybe. I haven't read the book, but I am obsessed with the musical Yeah, the book and musical are VASTLY different. Pretty much the only similarites are names and places, ..."
yeah, but the music's pretty good
I think I can answer one question... I thought she wanted the shoes in order to keep out of the Wizard's hands. She was afraid that once the Wizard got ahold of them, he would use them to commit further injustices on the Animals, and on Munchkinland...Also, they were a symbol of her father's affections, which she always seemed to yearned for, since she came second in his heart after Nessarose.
Good point, but I can't remember her not wanting the wizard to have the shoes (then again, it's been a while since I read this), but I do remember how her entire justification for wanting the shoes was because Nessa had them.Which seems sort of ridiculous. I mean, they're just shoes. I thought Elphaba was supposed to be above that kind of immature pettiness.
Madeline wrote: "Good point, but I can't remember her not wanting the wizard to have the shoes (then again, it's been a while since I read this), but I do remember how her entire justification for wanting the shoes..."but they were all that she had left of her sister.
You have got to be kidding, right? What was so hard to understand about the book? The answers to all your questions were right there. It's hardly brain surgery.It's simple, mediocre fiction for God's sake. You just have to read it and enjoy it for what it is.
Okay Tom, if it's so simple, please do all us morons a favor and explain the Philosophy Club and its importance in the story. 500 words or less is preferable.
On re-reading my earlier comment, I apologize, it does come across as a little nasty and that was not my intention. To answer your question, the Philosophy Club was a witch and duck weighing sex club. Lol, actually, I will be honest, it's been years since I read it, I just don't remember. But I do remember that the book wasn't that complex. However, I enjoy your comments about it, you seem like alot of fun!! And I beleive Elphaba weighs as much as a flock of ducks!!
to be honest, Elphie was always very thin.i'd say two or three at the most.
Love your review. I pretty much agree with you on every point. lol!
ok first of all the whole allergic to water thing was explained when glinda found fieryo and they had lunch together,from what i understood the green skin and allergy to water were defects from her father (the wizard) being from our world and her mother being from oz,
i also think that elpie didn'tt remember her son because she was half dead when she arrived and the maunts took care of her. she had tried to commit suicide because fieryo was dead, they had helped her and put her on drugs.
it was oz so of course the time dragon can work without being explained. it was a tool used for the pleasure faithers, it gave frex something to preach about while also explaining things such as elpie's past.
she had wanted the slippers for several reasons, she didn't want them to fall into the wizard's hands because he was evil and she hated him. they were also made by her father and were a symbol of his love, and they had a spell over them and she had thought that they could solve her problems like they solved nessa's
i think the philosophy club was supposed to be ambiguous because they were all so drunk when they went there. i think it was there so that while their friends were off figuring out what the mysterious philosophy club was glinda and elphie could sneak off to the emerald city, where elphie later stayed.
i think tha'ts just about everything right?
It explains everything, you just have to think. Her being green is explained that her parents drank the green elixir before she was conceived, there by changing her green. Her not being able to touch water is a defect from both worldly parents. The philosophy club was a college thing, to help elphie and glinda sneak off. Elphie was half dead when she came to the monks, so she could've easily not remembered it. The Clock of the Time Dragon was a thing that could know a persons past, present and future. It's magic, simple as that. She wanted the slippers first off cause it reminded her of her mother, they could help her, and it was her sister's they did not belong to dorothy. The scarecrow is Fiyero. If you listen to the song No Good Deed, it explains it a little better.
I completely agree with you about Maguire not explaining enough. I wish I read your review before I agreed to read this book. I'll never get those two days back!
Tally - obviously I did not read the book as closely as you did. It's been a long time since I read this, but I can't remember anyone actually explaining all of the things you said in your comment. Textual evidence, please? (and quoting songs from the musical doesn't count. The two are not comparable at all)Also, allow me to get on my high horse for a minute and say that I did think about the book. Quite a lot, actually. But nothing you explained was made clear in the book, and anything I might have enjoyed from the story was completely overshadowed by the fact that I didn't think Maguire knew what the hell was going on in his own story.
It's not as simple as "You just have to think."
Well, I figure that she is green because the Wizard is Irish... and she can't touch water because he got to Oz by walking into water or something like that... and the Philosophy Club/Dragon Time Clock are metaphors... and I have heard of instances where women don't know they are pregnant/give birth and don't realize it (go into shock)... I dunno. I just feel like her character collapsed at the end and it was disappointing that she actually died... it would have been funnier if the water hit her and she screamed and then realized it didn't affect her at all.
So...she's green because the wizard is Irish, and you think he got to Oz by "walking into water or something." Wow. I wish Gregory Maguire could read that.
Also, I've seen "I Didn't Know I Was Pregnant" and even those ladies figure it out once they sit on a toilet and a baby falls out.
If you read all three books a lot is explained. Although I didn't particularly enjoy A Lion Among Men ( and almost didn't finish it) it really does answer many of the aforementioned questions including The Clock of the Time Dragon.
Well, that's good to know, at least - I'm glad Maguire does get around to explaining some of these questions, but honestly I'm probably not interested enough to read the other books.
I could answer all those questions easily because most of them were explained in the book. You just have to be paying attention. Ugh
I am so glad someone else felt this way about wicked. I seriously read 3/4 of the book and then decided I didn't care enough to read the rest. Such a good premise...and then not carried through. The musical was great though.
Maguire did explain why Elphaba was green- Her mother and father (The Wizard, shocking as it is) drank green elixer before they did it which turned Elphaba's skin green. He also explained why she wanted the shoes so much- she wanted her father's love, he'd always loved her sister more and only saw Elphaba as an embarrasment and trouble. She wanted to be loved and to fit in. To put it simply she was jelous and they were also the only thing left of the sister she adorded so much. although i have to agree that alot of things weren't explained and some of the novel was confusing.
It is important to say that this book is *not* a "skimmer". I've read it several times (having never seen the stage production) and find something new and intriguing each time. It isn't that Maguire isn't explaining things, it's that there is SO much going on it is easy to miss things. Whomever said it was written on a fifth grade level is vastly mistaken. It's very intricate and the plot is often lost on readers looking for a quick fix. Wicked *isn't* a quick fix... it's a "thinker". Frankly, I love the book and even if I never see the musical, I'll still keep a copy in my library.As for the birth thing... she was traumatized. People *have* given birth and forgotten it. People have forgotten entire childhoods, blacked out while killing someone and not remembered... it's a fairly common psychological defense mechanism. Something is too much... it doesn't get burned into the memory like other things. Speaking in computer terms: It's written to RAM but not to the hard drive. When she "shuts off" it's gone.
Even normal women who are not traumatized, in a coma, drugged, *whatever* forget the PAIN of childbirth. We remember it hurt or was uncomfortable... but we don't really and truly remember the actual pain. There have even been studies on it. We *forget* to protect the species. If we remembered the pain clearly -- we would NEVER have children again!
Elphaba's condition merely takes this a few steps further. Her mind is protecting herself (as the mind has often been proven to do) from remembering a different kind of pain... for her... it's the entire experience of having the baby.
Maguire takes for granted that the reader understands this. Personally I thought it was pretty common knowledge but then you also missed a lot of other things going on, so I'm thinking you just were not reading very carefully and didn't get as much out of the book as you could have.
I really do concur with your review. I think my problem with Maguire (having attempted to read Confessions of an Ugly Stepsister as well) is that I just have a hard time wrapping my head around his use of language.... It's not terribly complicated, but for some reason I have a really hard time reading him. In both cases (Wicked and Stepsister) I thought the premise was SO fantastic, but just managed to fall short. In both cases I really WANTED to like it, but just didn't really.....
Caitleen wrote: "hey, um, you know what really helps when reading Maguire?read it again.
if you don't get it, read it again.
it took me twice to get everything, but then after thinking that it was really dim and ..."
I completely agree with this. I honestly didn't know what to think of Wicked after reading it for the first time. After I read it the second time though, I actually enjoyed it. You have to go in knowing it's going to be dark and creepy, and the fact that some of the things aren't explained (like the philosophy club) kind of add to the mystery of it. If you read more of McGuires stories this tone is in all of them.
This isn't directed only at the previous comment, but is more of a general announcement from this frustrated reviewer: I swear to God, if one more person comments just to tell me "Everything was explained in the book, you just weren't reading it right because you're too stupid! Here, let me go through an itemized list of explanations even though thirty other people before me have done the exact same thing" I will flip my shit.
whooooa hehe don't flip your shit bro hehe...was at the zoo last week and the chimps did the same thing...I understand their frustration cuz they're in a cage (humane enclosure my rear--I swear that's the last time I support the zoo eeech) Ohh but back to the book...Yeeeah I see now that those discussions on the book were years ago, huh? Kinda pointless to go round and round about it for years of our lives, huh? That *is* crappy...My bad--I was just going through some of my old books to toss in the garage sale pile (hehe pile) and I thought hmmm...lets see which of my books ppl think are crap...Wicked was not only at the top of the stack--it called out to be considered for the task...though I liked it...lol. Don't worry...be happy...=) You're right and you will always be right...no matter what...I'll be wrong...I'm used it it...I'm sooo wrong and it was retarded of me to not consider that casually saying what I thought would cause some irritation for others. I'll delete the comment if it helps...=)....(can I do that??) Hmmm...I'll try...Peace and Love turtle dooove...
I know it sounded like I was lashing out at you specifically, but I assure you, you weren't doing anything wrong by stating your opinion. It just gets frustrating because this review has been up for four years and it seems like every few months someone has to comment just to give their explanation of something that's already been explained in ten other comments, or just to say "You didn't get it because you weren't reading the book carefully enough, duh." It gets old, is what I'm saying (and you didn't need to delete your comment, really. But like I said, there are already a dozen just like it on this thread)
hehe okie dokie articho--kie...No worries. =)
Shes green because shes different from everyone else, a mixture of two species. Her father is the wizard. The genetics were all messed up, which made her into a type of monster. This also explains why she cant touch water. She wanted the slippers because they belonged to Nessarose, and she wanted that part of her fathers love and affection. The philopsopy club is, as my interpatation, just part of the college life style. The guys made a "club" to go see creepy beastility porn. And she doesn't know if Lirr is her son because she was in deep metitation during her pregnancy, (apperently so deep she didnt wake up for his birth.) And to be honest, I can't remember exactly what the dragon clock is, but I thinkkk it was made by the wizard to tell people about themselves. This is where you find out about Elphaba being the wizards daughter. This is an outstanding, complex book. Honestly, it gets better everytime you read it. Don't expect to read it once and be done, it must be reread and analysized multiple times. You find out about the scarecrow during the second book. Read the book again, you'll understand it more.
And to Emily, who answered most the questions too, thank you for pointing out she was drugged from attemptive suicide. I never realized that before. Each time I read this book I discover things I missed, and I will deffinately remember that next time. :)
But even if you are drugged/meditating/whatever when you're pregnant, the act of giving birth leaves permanent physical aftereffects. Maybe Elphaba doesn't remember being pregnant or giving birth, but at some point she had to have been lucid enough to look down and think, "Hmm, my vagina looks different! Almost like I expelled a fetus-sized object from my womb in the recent past! And now I have these odd stretchmarks, as if my belly spent a few months being much larger than it usually is! How very very puzzling!"
I agree with everything you've said, Madeline. I'm a frikking English teacher and that book confused me with all of the vagueness and unexplained phenomena. I'm not intending to brag here, but generally I understand things. If I can't follow a story or understand what happens in a book, it's the author's poor writing that's the problem. This book was poorly written, in my opinion.
I never understood this appeal of this book. I agree with everything discussed above. All of it. I also thought that Elphaba's decline, which this book was supposed to be an explanation of, was not well explained. I did not buy that a politically active woman so invested in change would suddenly turn bitter and hateful. I read this book 8 years ago so I cannot remember exactly the part that bothered me, please forgive me if I mis-remember. The main memory I have from this book is that it was a boring and poorly written book -- and I have never found anyone else in real life or online book discussions to agree with me. So I am very thrilled to have read this review.
ha! so right.And I agree with Reg- boring and poorly written. And preachy, I might add.
The musical however- all together different thing.
(I noticed someone earlier used a song from the musical to explain fieryo- can you even do that? because from what I could tell the musical is only loosely based on the book.)
Kat wrote: "If I can't follow a story or understand what happens in a book, it's the author's poor writing that's the problem."
hahaha--I LOVE it! sooo what do you think of the bible?? lol
hahaha--I LOVE it! sooo what do you think of the bible?? lol"It's a lovely piece of fiction for the most part, though the combination of multiple authors does tend to create a bit of a problem with cohesion. The editing could also have used some work as many parts are contradictory. But this isn't really the place for that review, now is it?
hehe I didn't actually think you were gonna do it...hehehe...=)
what about stuff that's written in code?? writing in code is pretty cool...
It recently came to my attention that there is an urban legend (I use that phrase because it is less distressing than accepting that people actually believe this) that if a woman dyes her hair while pregnant the baby will have that hair color. Maybe Elphaba was turned green by the same "science".
Not everyone likes the same things and u're free to have ur own opinion. I'm not an Oz fan, period, but my sister insisted this was worth the read.I gave it a shot and loved it, but then again I went into it not expecting much lol.
I never wondered about any of those things but I did wonder why Elphaba's son was neither green or blue lol...unless he was but it wasn't mentioned? :P
likely you receive all these comments pointing out what you missed because your lack of understanding is the only reason you give for a poor rating. you're allowed to not like a book, but "because i want to be spoonfed the explanation behind every detail" says more about you than the book.
Oh fuck off. I don't want to be "spoonfed the explanation behind every detail", I want the goddamn author to give me a reason for including major scenes and plot points.
Haven't read the book... it's been recommended to me before, but then again, I've never sat down to watch the Wizard of Oz (I know... the horror... the horror). I've seen Return to Oz (directed by Walter Murch, which was creeeepy!), and I thought that was good. I think I didn't get into the original WOZ because it was a musical (I'm REALLY picky about those).
As for being unable to touch water... isn't it because she's a witch? Didn't you ever watch Monty Python and the Holy Grail? She's a WITCH! That should explain it all.
As for wanting the slippers... who knows? I would've wanted them so I can sell them on Ebay - c'mon, Ruby slippers? Or maybe they were a unique pair of Manolo Blahniks. Who knows? Just a guess.
As for having a sedative that can make you forget about being pregnant... think about if you could only patent, mass produce, and market it! You'd be a millionaire overnight.